Been doing more reading and lookie here........................................................Supposedly, when Evelyn X was informed about Malcolm's unexpected marriage to Betty Shabazz, she left the mosque in tears. Elijah Muhammad then became sexually involved with her. As Evelyn X Williams later informed the press, "He told us that under the teaching of the Holy Koran, we were not committing adultery and that we were his wives." By 1962, when Clara Muhammad became fully aware of her husband's eight children born out of wedlock to different women, she painfully withdrew from an active role in the organization for several years. When media sources learned about Elijah Muhammad's sexual affairs, the women were censured and described as "prostitutes" in Muhammad Speaks. In July 1964, after his break with the NOI, Malcolm X persuaded Evelyn X Williams and another woman sexually victimized by Elijah Muhammad to file paternity suits. Both women suffered extreme harassment, and were forced to move when explosions occurred next to their shared living quarters.

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where the KOOL people hang out....

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Key statement:

"He told us that under the teaching of the Holy Koran, we were not committing adultery and that we were his wives."

 

Swtearl & others, The Hon. Elijah Muhammad is not an ordinary man. He came to us and revealed that he met with Gof Himself. The Hon. Elijah Muahammad is a Prophet of God whether your chose to believe it or not. Many Prophets of God if you would read your Bible had more then one wife. Read your Bible please. They didnt have multiple wives for the sake of being lustful & cheap. That was apart of their mission by God and it was ordained by God. Planting their seeds were very necessary. God said be fruitful and multiply. There is nothing wrong with having children. That is natural.

 

When you have a misconsrued perception of holy men, you think that they are as men as we know them in the streets. The low down and triflin men you see before us everyday is not how the Prophets of God are. They are on a high level of consciousness. I could teach you how to go and find the truth. But in your grave of ignorance you reject truth out of your love if white folks. Your still a slave. Nothing you wrote was facts, it was all HEARSAY. You cant even provide a link to where you got it from. You probably wrote that yourself, who knows.

 

The Motherplane is very real. It has been seen all over the world. What people call UFO's is actually the Motherplane. I suggest you read the book of Ezekiel before you start mocking us. He said he saw the Son of Man coming on a wheel that looked like a pilar of fire. There are no dudes from Mars here to watch us. We are being watched and protected by the pilots on those planes. American, British, & Japanese pilots all over the world have seen it up close and has attempted to shoot them down, to no avail. 

 

That is nothing hidden or something we try to hide. The Hon. Min. Louis Farrakhan openly talks about it and he has warned the United States government that if he is attacked that they will be destroyed. They know this. It is the ignorant Negroes out in the streets who dont realize or refuse to believe that God is here to save them and pull them away from their former slave masters who refuse to give them Freedom, Justice, & Equality.

I dont need any one to agree with me. I know what I believe to be true. Christian continue to pray to God for answers and He has already sent the answers and is closer than what we all would think. If you keep waiting on a mystery spirit to float out of the sky you will miss your chance to find Him. You can take it or leave it. Your blood is off my hands because I have warned you and told you the truth.

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Some people say I start drama, I say I finish it.

@Swtearl:  If you have such a problem with Elijah Muhammad or the Nation of Islam, why don't you man up and start a separate topic about it.  No amount of huffing and puffing over another man's sex life is going change the fact that the Black church was created and exists for the sole purpose of keeping negros enslaved.

If you really have a problem with other men's sex lives, why don't you mention Jim Jones and the People's Temple!?  Not only did Jim Jones molest both males and females in his church, but he killed 912 of his church members, after sending them to a concentration camp in Guyana.  The Nation doesn't have a track record like that.  912 Black women and children were killed by a Christian Socialist Preacher.  It all started with the 'Black Church'. 

Admit it swtearl:  You really don't care about anyone's sex life.  Your real intent is to change the subject and keep negros in darkness.  Like I said, you are the Black Church personified.  Your very existence is a danger to the Black man and woman in America.

Later for you- Stumpy!  Your days are numbered, and your destination is to Allah.

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بِسْمِ اللّهِ الرَّحْمـَنِ الرَّحِيمِ

الْحَمْدُ للّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ

There is no god except Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger

The Church offer the message of freedom in Christ,and the abundant life. The church haas always been a mainstay on the black community. The gospel has never change. Blacks gravatated to the muslin religion because it was and is anti white. God is Love. Any one who teaches hatred are anti-christs. Allah(God) is patience and loving. Asad wants Allah to do his bidding by destroying those he disagree with. But,that will never be the case. It is only when mankind rejects God's grace through Christ, that he will get his just reward." For God so Loved the world, that He sent His only begotton son,so that who ever believes in Him shall not perish,but have everylasting life"John3:16

So "PIMP DADDY" said he met god and he's floating aroud on the "MOTHERSHIP"???  Is bootsy playing on the ship with george clinton???  Those were "CLUES" to let you know this PIMP is nutty!!

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where the KOOL people hang out....

http://ebonycity.heavenforum.com/index.htm

This is the first time that i've heard anything about Elijah Muhammad having kids outside of his marriage.  While I really don't know how true it is, at the same time it really matters very little to me.  Because whether he did or didn't doesn't add to or take away from my life.  Furthermore Elijah Muhammad is not synonymous with Islamic faith (maybe the Muslims here would agree, or maybe not).  What I'm saying is, though it may be hard for us to understand/deal with this one mans actions do not speak for what he stands for as a whole.  In other words, though he was a great leader in the Islamic faith, I don't think that his indiscretions should speak for Islam as a whole.  22 kids??  While it is wrong, all I call that is "defeat your demons before you get your platform".  What I mean by that is if your struggles are your struggles no matter who you are, and the fact remains that you are human.  But I would advise one not to step into certain positions/platforms while you are still struggling. (e.g. If you know that you've been liking little boys sinc you were a little boy, why would you go into the preisthood?).  If George Bush and Martin O'Malley were caught sniffing coke in two separate incidents who do you think would get more media attention.  Certainly George Bush.  Most of you probably don't even know who Martin O'Malley is.  But cetainly what the President of the United States does weighs heavier in the eyes of the public than what the Governor of Maryland does.  (I know, I took forever just to make one point).

But my question for my athiests, agnostics, and those whose faith is other than Christianity, what would your response be if someone even accused Billy Graham or T.D. Jakes of having kids out of wedlock?  Would it be a big deal then?

Just as easily as this thread was started someone could bring some authentic arguments to the table and start a thread called "How black people harms the black community" (in fact, the black church is made up of the black community).    How the black church harms the black community; well how has the black church helped?  Does the bad outweigh the good?  Do the individual incidents speak for the black church as a whole?  Is there not one good thing that the black church does? 

My Statistics professor made a great point in one of our sessions.  She said that the problem with statistics is that it can easily be manipulated to a certain veiw.  For example somebody could do a study and come back with these results:   "67% of black men between the ages of 35 and 50 have earned less than 12 college credits."  While this survey could be completely "accurate", can you say that this study/survey is "true" if all of the participants in the study lived in the same housing project area?  To get a "true" answer you have to question black men of different backgrounds and locations. 

Perhaps the same was done here.  When we talk about how the black church harms the black community, let's question all the sources, not just the ones that point in a certain direction.  Have people/leader in church done thing that were not right/godly/harmful?  Sure!  But have they also done so much to develop and better people?  Absolutely!

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"When there is no challenge there is no victory." - WTJ

^ EXCELLENT!

I can see both sides of the coin on this one. I know that there are black churches who do good and has congregations who actually try to live as Jesus instructed us to. It is just that the bad or corrupt churches outweigh the good ones.

People have been getting taken for their money for years now at black churches. With the soar in violence in black neighborhoods, it just seems like the churches offer no solutions to these problems that face the youth of today. These children have absolutely no desire to go to church any more. They are tired, sick, and frustrated. Unless there a mass revival in the church, this will continue. I just wish the real honest pastors and ministers would come forth and over throw all of the deceivers who are infesting the house of God. Now is the time to stand up.

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Lead your life by example. That is the only way you can honestly be respected.

 AsadAbdurRahman wrote:

@Swtearl:  If you have such a problem with Elijah Muhammad or the Nation of Islam, why don't you man up and start a separate topic about it.  No amount of huffing and puffing over another man's sex life is going change the fact that the Black church was created and exists for the sole purpose of keeping negros enslaved.

If you really have a problem with other men's sex lives, why don't you mention Jim Jones and the People's Temple!?  Not only did Jim Jones molest both males and females in his church, but he killed 912 of his church members, after sending them to a concentration camp in Guyana.  The Nation doesn't have a track record like that.  912 Black women and children were killed by a Christian Socialist Preacher.  It all started with the 'Black Church'. 

Admit it swtearl:  You really don't care about anyone's sex life.  Your real intent is to change the subject and keep negros in darkness.  Like I said, you are the Black Church personified.  Your very existence is a danger to the Black man and woman in America.

Later for you- Stumpy!  Your days are numbered, and your destination is to Allah.

Keeping negro's in darkness??  You are void of light if you believe there is a MOTHERSHIP floating around the earth and PIMP DADDY is in it just waiting to return!!

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where the KOOL people hang out....

http://ebonycity.heavenforum.com/index.htm

 unorthodox15 wrote:

This is the first time that i've heard anything about Elijah Muhammad having kids outside of his marriage. What I'm saying is, though it may be hard for us to understand/deal with this one mans actions do not speak for what he stands for as a whole.  In other words, though he was a great leader in the Islamic faith, I don't think that his indiscretions should speak for Islam as a whole. 

 

22 kids??  While it is wrong, all I call that is "defeat your demons before you get your platform".  What I mean by that is if your struggles are your struggles no matter who you are, and the fact remains that you are human.  But I would advise one not to step into certain positions/platforms while you are still struggling. (e.g. If you know that you've been liking little boys sinc you were a little boy, why would you go into the preisthood?). 

 

Unorthodox you are comparing The Hon. Elijah Muhammad to homosexual child molesters. He is a Prophet of God. Most of the Prophets of God had more than one wife. His children are not illegitimate, having children is not a sin no matter how many you are blessed to have. If every time you have relations with your wife God put a baby in her womb, would you call that wrong or something to be shameful of? 

David, Esau, Issac etc. had multiple wives. If you read the Bible and say it is what you live by you have to accept all of the terms and conditions of it right? A woman who is chosen to be a wife of a Prophet would have to understand her place and what God has planned for their marriage. God visited Abraham and told him that Sarah would give birth to a boy child and she laughed because she thought it seemed far fetched.

We have study groups every Friday to go over scripture and go in depth with it so we will have a proper view of the Prophets and their lives. Once you rise above emotions into the thinking of God, you can see them in the proper perception. If you dont believe that the Hon. Elijah Muhammad was a Prophet sent by Allah then you would see him as a cheap lustful man. But I believe and I know that that is not who he was. I know some of his children personally.

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Some people say I start drama, I say I finish it.

 swtearl wrote:So "PIMP DADDY" said he met god and he's floating aroud on the "MOTHERSHIP"???  Is bootsy playing on the ship with george clinton???  Those were "CLUES" to let you know this PIMP is nutty!!

 

The Motherplane is mentioned all through out the Bible.

 

2 Kings 2 Elijah Taken Up to Heaven

 1 When the LORD was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal. 2 Elijah said to Elisha, "Stay here; the LORD has sent me to Bethel."       But Elisha said, "As surely as the LORD lives and as you live, I will not leave you." So they went down to Bethel.

 

 10 "You have asked a difficult thing," Elijah said, "yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours—otherwise not."

 11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. 12 Elisha saw this and cried out, "My father! My father! The chariots and horsemen of Israel!" And Elisha saw him no more. Then he took hold of his own clothes and tore them apart.

 

Ezekiel 1 4:25

 

4 I looked, and I saw a windstorm coming out of the north—an immense cloud with flashing lightning and surrounded by brilliant light. The center of the fire looked like glowing metal, 5 and in the fire was what looked like four living creatures. In appearance their form was that of a man, 6 but each of them had four faces and four wings. 7 Their legs were straight; their feet were like those of a calf and gleamed like burnished bronze. 8 Under their wings on their four sides they had the hands of a man. All four of them had faces and wings, 9 and their wings touched one another. Each one went straight ahead; they did not turn as they moved.

 10 Their faces looked like this: Each of the four had the face of a man, and on the right side each had the face of a lion, and on the left the face of an ox; each also had the face of an eagle. 11 Such were their faces. Their wings were spread out upward; each had two wings, one touching the wing of another creature on either side, and two wings covering its body. 12 Each one went straight ahead. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, without turning as they went. 13 The appearance of the living creatures was like burning coals of fire or like torches. Fire moved back and forth among the creatures; it was bright, and lightning flashed out of it. 14 The creatures sped back and forth like flashes of lightning.

 15 As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. 16 This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like chrysolite, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. 17 As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not turn about  as the creatures went. 18 Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.

 19 When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. 20 Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. 21 When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

 22 Spread out above the heads of the living creatures was what looked like an expanse, sparkling like ice, and awesome. 23 Under the expanse their wings were stretched out one toward the other, and each had two wings covering its body. 24 When the creatures moved, I heard the sound of their wings, like the roar of rushing waters, like the voice of the Almighty, [e] like the tumult of an army. When they stood still, they lowered their wings.

 25 Then there came a voice from above the expanse over their heads as they stood with lowered wings. 26 Above the expanse over their heads was what looked like a throne of sapphire, [f] and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man. 27 I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him. 28 Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him.       This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. When I saw it, I fell facedown, and I heard the voice of one speaking

 

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Some people say I start drama, I say I finish it.

So all the women that had kids by this man were his "WIVES"??  Don't think so.  Why did he have them REMOVE from the mosque when they came up pregnant and labeled as WHORES???  WHy did Malcolm help them file paternity suits?  By him just saying they were married doesn't make them married.  YET the man wasn't MAN enough to admit his wrong doing!

These are FACTS!!!!

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where the KOOL people hang out....

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 swtearl wrote:

So all the women that had kids by this man were his "WIVES"??  Don't think so.  Why did he have them REMOVE from the mosque when they came up pregnant and labeled as WHORES???  WHy did Malcolm help them file paternity suits?  By him just saying they were married doesn't make them married.  YET the man wasn't MAN enough to admit his wrong doing!

These are FACTS!!!!

 

If they are facts, PROVE IT. How hard is that? All you are hurling out is hearsay. You dont know anything about the domestic life of The Hon. Elijah Muahmmad. If your going to come to debate, you really need to start getting something substantial to back it up.

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Some people say I start drama, I say I finish it.

Heresay??  Nope...FACTS!!!!  Look it up!!

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where the KOOL people hang out....

http://ebonycity.heavenforum.com/index.htm

@ True First let me say that I have not compared Elijah Muhammad to anyone. I simply used the priests as an example to make a point. The issue is not whether he had 22 kids. It doesn't matter if he had 122. The issue is whether or not these kids were outside of the confines of marriage. Having a bunch of kids in marriage - no problem. But to have a bunch of kids outside of your own marriage - I see a big problem with that. And it doesn't matter if your Elijah Muhammad, Kirk Franklin, myself, or Joe Blow off the street.

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"When there is no challenge there is no victory." - WTJ