I'm not even a Nas fan, but he's right when he said Hip-Hop is dead.It died some time ago, when it went from being creative and entertaining (to/for all ages) to being mostly about sex, drugs, violence and other dumb stuff.

I wish that BET would have had either more or different artists on the panel...I agreed with T.I. being on there...I really don't feel that Nelly should have been the frontrunner as far as expressing the views of the artists in general...Nelly came off very defensive and I was not feeling his reactions and how he conducted himself on the panel...I know he was upset that his sister passed from lukemia, but he should know that as an artist every action has a reaction...People chose to react to the uncut video he decided to do and those are the chances you take as an artist..It was just unfortunate that, his choice to do the video ended up affecting a situation that invovled a loved one, as far as him trying to find a donor and getting a backlash as a result of the video...It seemed though that his only stance was to defend himself for doing tip drill and not defending the general concepts or principles behind hip hop! Next I would like to add that I do not consider Nelly a Hip Hop artist honestly...I consider him a pop artist, just to be real...when I look at the content and his style of music it honestly fits the genre of Pop in my opinion...I don;t know if such individuals refused to come but I would have liked to have seen Common, David Banner, Mos Def, Russell Simmons (since he is supposed to be the godfather of this genre), Jay Z, Nas, Busta Rhymes, Hype Williams,perhaps even Kanye... I appreciate the fact that Nelly showed up, being as it was he went against the word of his label, but that's just my personal opinion...I would have like to have heard more from Chuck D and Michael Eric Dyson...I know there were alot of people on the panel who needed to express their views, but I believe that those are 2 individuals who should have been given more of an opportunity to express themselves...Since one of the issues was about artists who don't "sellout" I would have liked to see there perspective portrayed more on the show...It's one thing to say "there are other forms of hip hop out there which are positive or political"...but it seemed odd that only one of those types of artists was represented on the panel and then not allowed to express his opinion too much...I would suggest to, and I respect Jeff Johnson to the utmost but it happened with him also, but it happened more often when Toure' was hosting, but perhaps if this is done again...someone more authoritative should host. simply, because alot of the time when people were trying to express their views, they were often cut off by Nelly in his defensive stance...Both the lady(I forget the sister's name) whom said she had the hardest jobin America, a mother, and Michael Eric Dyson were constantly cut off by Nelly...In my opinion he spoke way too much and I don't feel that his opinion should have been expressed that much versus the other people that were on the panel and the other artists that exist...And like I said before he might listen to hip hop now or listened to it growing up, but the genre of mucis he chooses to produce is not hip hop...I think it was Krs-1 who siad that what he was doing was not hip hop and Nelly got upset about it but it was the truth...by the way where was Krs-1, he should have been on the panel..one of the greatest mcs ever and a pioneer of hip hop!!!!!!! basically i feel that there was not a good representation of all the various forms of hip hop on the panel!!!!!!!!Jes

You are absolutely correct...all the artists who represent what HIP HOP should be do not selll and are seldom publicized...there is hardly any creativity in Hip Hop anymore...It is redundant and repititve!!!Everything is the same...Where are the artists(I know there are some but they can get air time or radio play because the game is filled with so much garbage!!!!)that will put the things we face today in their music such as: Jena 6, or what happened to the sister in W VA...but people are quick to comment or make lyrics about something as frivalous as the "Supahead" situation...that situation is not even that serious...but artists feel it is more important to respond to the contents of her book versus what's taking place in our culture....the artists keep copping the same plea like Mike Jones said on TV(who is he anyway, he should not have been on that panel, he got on there talking about "I mean I like to go to the strip club" are you serious! anyway he said "people are getting mad at us all we are doing is saying the things the media hides"....Okay I feel you but does it take every artist in the industry to do that...then you got people who are "fake" and talk about these things just to move units and they are not a productive of that type of environment...and in response o the Mike Jones quote how many artists do we need to repost the same "stuuf they try to hide"...let's be real society already knows what happens in the majority of our communities...and most of these artists are not telling stories they are promoting ignorance...very few of these people that chooose to exploit the community are doing it for the benefit of the community...they are bragging about moving this many keys, or having this many guns...they are not taking the T.I., david Banner, Jayz or Nas approach of telling yu not to get involved in these things they are glorifying it...Let's look at where Hip Hop came from Run DMC, Public Enemy, and N.W.A...Public Enemy were very political, outright political, taking a stance for the community...N.W.A did not use the same approach as Public Enemy but had the same concept...now look where things are, you never would have thought by looking at the majorty of the nmusic or all the music that gets the spins and the publicity that this genre of music derived from Run DMC, Public Enemy or N.W.A... they say that the corportaions have made the formula and everyone has to folow it...what would have happened if Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Medgar Evers, Marcus Garvey, Bobby Seale or any of our other influential leaders had followed the "formula" ...just think where we owuld be as a culture...now I ask some of these artists to use that same analogy to their music............

Let me 1st say that I think its good that BET decided to have a conversation to address Hip Hop. However THEY WENT ABOUT ALL THE WRONG WAY. It's called "Hip-Hop vs. America" So already we're choosing sides. Either with Nelly and T.I. or the scholars who most veiwers dont know or relate to. It would make more sense to have different artists from different genres of Hip-Hop having this discussion because all we saw on that program was three point of views. Two commercial rappers, the womens issues, and the scholarly point of veiw, thats all!! I wanna see Common, Nelly, Diddy, Talib Kweli, Russell Simmons, T.I. Kanye, Ludacris and maybe some aspiring unsigned artist (to give us the point of view of what he has to do to get into the business). They only had T.I. and Nelly to represent Hip Hop in its current state. (Mike Jones didn't say much on any thing) That would be more of a honest conversation. We've all discussed rap music with some older person who couldn't see or feel where us younger people we're coming from. That's all Hip Hop vs America is. ALL THIS CONVERSATION DID WAS FURTHER ALIENATE HIP-HOP. I CHALLENGE EVERYONE TO "REALLY LISTEN TO YOU MUSIC. GO TO OHHLA.COM AND LOOK UP YOUR HIP HOP MUSICS LYRICS. READ THE LYRICS WITHOUT THE MUSIC. IT GIVE YOU A DIFFERENT FEEL FOR WHAT THE ARTIST IS REALLY SAYING. THE REAL DISCUSSION HERE NEEDS TO BE WITH YOU AND YOUR PEERS.

I like intellectuals!!!! I just think people need to stay on topic... this topic. there's a difference between drawing from relavent sources to support your arguments, and grandstanding. That being said.... In my previous post the point that i was making was that the concept of people getting their understanding of  african american culture from a song titled tipdrill, makes as much sense as someone saying that they learned about japanese culture from watching a kung fu movie.  I know it sounds extremely ignorant, but that's the point I was making. Kung fu is one of the many asian martial arts. Just like hip-hop is one of the many african american music styles.  Kung Fu movies were highly popluar in america similar to hip-hop music videos ( and both are primarily for entertainment purposes). So why can a person watch a 2 hour movie and understand parts of it just aren't real. But not do the same thing to a  3 min music video? It just sounds ridiculous to me. " ...We didn't land on plymouth rock, plymouth rock landed on us..."  Alot of the negative things happening in our communities is due to drugs period. not hip-hop.  A song can't make a mother not take care of her kids. Crack can.  Also. Hip-hop artists  can not be held accountable for the ignorance of americans on african american culture.  There are books, there are museums, and other historic sites, that most americans never read, or visit. You can't make people want to learn about african americans if they don't want to .  There are numerous examples of african american music, jazz, neo-soul,  negro spirituals, gospel, blues, hip-hop, R&B, doo wop. All of which you can find in any music store that you go to today, today people.  To purchase a hip-hop cd you have to go to a store and look over all those other african american music styles, and pick the hip-hop cd.  That's called selection. I think it is therefore okay to say that Hip-hop ( the shoot em up kind)   seems to be the only context in which americans really wants to deal with african americans. I call that Lemons. Hip-hop artists have made lemonade. These artists have made millions. Many of them have created programs to give back to their communities. They've taken their hip-hop money and spread it over to other industries. They've taken hip-hop all over the world increasing it's influence. Cover girl started it's first line for women of color.  Everyone talks about honor and image. But we've been here for two hundred plus years giving to this country. How much free labor did they get out of our ancestors? How many wars have our ancestors *10*ht in,  knowing that they would never be recognized for their efforts and still fighting.  How much of america's music including rock, and country, has been influence by african americans? Who gave the world Jazz? We got  civil rights  using non-violence (on our part).  And what has this country given to us? Lemons!!!!!  If all that we've done for this country hasn't earned us the right to be respected by america, by now, nothing will. I think it's better to just focus on making money and using that money to rebuild our communities. 

Part of the problem is that the older generation is telling half the story. Rev Sharpton bring up conversations he had with James Brown about Hip-Hop but never mentions that the Godfather had songs where he talks about not liking snitching and beating his girlfriend. And let's not forget that *** Gregory had a book call *17*R but Nas had better not think about it.  Kim Osorio sat on the panel and talked at Nelly, you don't fix a issue in that matter. The "Black Leaders" should feel ashamed the pressure got turned up because of Don Imus pointed the finger at the "culture” and in turn everyone pointed at Hip Hop. Mr. Imus is almost a hundred years old and would suggest that he was influenced by Hip Hop or anything else to say what he said, come on people. The "Black Leaders" should have kept the pressure on him, but instead they put there tail between their legs and went to eat their own. And he is preparing to get paid from CBS and get another contract from someone else. Yes Tip Drill was very raunchy but it was meant for adults and played a 3:00am, but because of this more kids may know of it now then would have if it was left alone, thanks "Black Leaders".

NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of COLORED People) and you want to bury the N-word.

I don’t believe that hip hop is dead, it has just changed since the first rap song was released. If you listen to what some of these rap songs are saying you will hear the struggle the artist went through and how some of them overcame those struggles and how they changed their lives. We do have some artist who rap about violence, but if you think about it who is driving them to do this, America. America is the blame for a lot of the songs that are released. These rappers have to write their rhymes and it is up to producers, video directors, and us as Americans to support the rappers. Rappers are only doing their jobs. They are giving the people what they want to hear. Just like T.I. said on the show, if he puts girls in long skirts and button up collar shirts in his video, who would vote his video to be played. The answer to that is no one. We might like the song until we see the video and that may change our whole attitude about the song. Rappers are entertainers. They do not determine our way of life. They are being paid to entertain us by any means necessary and that's exactly what they are doing. Do you hear anyone complaining about these rock and roll songs that are about sex, violence, and drugs? NO. There are several rappers who are making the money and doing something positive with it. People don't see this because they don't want too. I have heard a lot about Nelly, Lil Wayne, Jay Z, Ice Cube, Puff Daddy, Fat Joe, and many more making several donations to charities and under privileged kids. They are not being recognized for this, but the minute they rap about something that you don't do yourself, then they are doing something wrong with their lives. To me it sounds a lot like someone is jealous. The people who put down rappers are mad because they can not flow and that rappers are making money doing it. They feel that rappers are being paid to do nothing, but if that's the case, what about singers, dancers, and comedians. All these people are being paid to entertain us. They are doing their job, just because their jobs are a lot easier than ours does not mean that they don't deserve the same respect as everyone else. People need to just leave them alone. One person took it upon himself to publicly voice his opinion on hip hop and then everyone else jumped on the band wagon. We as BLACK AMERICA need to stop putting each other down and stand together as a whole. I hear more black people putting these rappers down than I do other races. They are trying to get us to turn on each other and they went to our music to do just that. And you know who I am referring to when I say they. I see a lot of people pointing their fingers and rappers saying that they are causing violence in the world, but what is government teaching us. We have been fighting an endless war for years now that to me is saying if other countries don't comply and give America what we want, we will just go over there and take it no matter how many lives are lost. So how can you say that if a rapper raps about the violence he has seen in his neighborhood, he is causing others to go out and commit a crime. That is just plan ignorant. I am my own person. Just because one person does it doesn't mean that I must do it to. Just like when we where smaller and we would get in trouble and blame our friends our parents would always ask," So if Johnny jumped off the roof will you?" How many of us answered no to this question. We were taught to be leaders not followers. This is what people should be teaching their children. If you are doing your job as a parent, there is no way that your child should see videos or hear songs and decide that this is the correct way of life. And for the females out there who are offended by the songs and videos, stop doing what you are doing. I am a 26 year old black woman who does not drink, do drugs, or go to clubs, but to each its own. If you do these things that's you, but these type of things do not excite me. When I hear a rapper refer to a woman in his song as a b!@ch or a ***, it does not offend me one bit because I know that he is not talking about me. But you know what, there are some women out there who are exactly what these rappers are rapping about and I'm not talking about the girls in the video. We do have these women he portray these images and they don't care. You have to respect yourself before someone else will. Stop doing what you are doing to be called these names. Hip Hop is entertainment. It is not a way of life. We need to take responsibility for ourselves and stop pointing blame at a form of music. Music can't make you do anything you have a choice. Let these rappers do their jobs and entertain you. There is so much more to life than music. Stop pointing blame at rappers and stop passing judgment on them. The only one that should judge us is GOD. Rappers don't have to answer to anyone but him. No one is above him. In the bible it says, LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE.

This is a good topic; mostly because I debate about this everyday with a few of my friends. I am a 28 year-old black female and I dont even like the music that is out now. Notice I didnt call it "hip-hop". It's strictly club music. But thats beside the point. The point is: White America (as so it should be) vs. hip-hop has come about because it is now crossing over into the white culture. Seeping into white homes. Festering in the minds of white teens who now want to learn how to Crank dat Soulja Boy. Its scaring them half to death that their straight A student, Billy, is now pulling into their suburb home driveway and blasting the likes of Jay-Z and Lil Wayne. So, now it is a concern for them. They dont want their kids to listen to this blasphemy! So, now it makes headline news and brings out the NAACP (to try and play a positive role and be a strong representation for black people). But let me give you my opinion. I think that some of today's music IS a HUGE influencer from clothing to drinks (50 cent's Vitamin Water) to cologne/perfume to, probably somebody's own liquor. It can either sway or attract certain people and the masses that these record companies are looking at are young teeny-boppers to teenagers. Preferably black. And because most of these young black children are growing up without a family foundation, without a positive role model (besides an athlete, artist, or some "hood figga", or video "model...I STILL laugh about that!.......Anyway, without that in place an impressionable mind is a VERY easy target. Now, dont we ALL agree that television is a POWERFUL device, just as is the computer?? So, why not something on CD be AS powerful as those two? I do think that music can be an outlet and SOMETIMES can be blamed for certain actions. But I dont think that it should be singled out by "America" as the worst music on earth and it needs to be banned. I think the game changed and yeah, most of the sh_it out here now is pretty wack. Its not hip-hop, really. It could be labeled as an extension of something that was ONCE great. The only thing that the game needs is ARTISTS WITH REAL LYRICAL ABILITY. Kids need to hear something more than "her booty bouncing all over the place" or "i got my .38 special under my white tee". True, people have choices and can make decisions but it seems that their decisions are life-altering. Or life ending. We are losing our young kids, babies......daily. And music isnt just to blame. But it does play a role in lives of kids who have no other role model. It's sad that music has become such an aggressor and such a form of communicating hate and violence through lyrical ability (or lack thereof). But those record companies dont want you to believe that music can have a huge negative/positive effect; regardless of era or music genre. But to make a LONG story short, it goes WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY beyond music. FIRST, we must learn to re-establish our family structure. Fathers in the homes. Mothers nurturing and raising the kids. Foundation. Until we do this, there is really no hope. And thats real talk.

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"The best proof of love is trust"
"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom".

No Myspace, but I gotta place.....check out a few pics....

I agree with a majority of the things you said except i think that knowing that there are children who are in homes that are not being parented,  or are not being properly taken care of,  should call african americans as a community to come together to take action against that. Holding people accountable for bad parenting!!! Period. Saying that it is a hip-hop artist's  responsibility to taylor their lyrics is not only ludicrous and unconstitutional, it is also another way to stay inactive, because if it's the hip-hop artists fault there's nothing you need to do to change things.  Seeing a child being under parented, should  call african americans to utilize the programs and systems that are within their legistations, and communitites to help those children that need it. That's what laws are for , laws are for the people, and to protect those that need it, (which is why it's great to live in america because some other places don't have these laws), that's why there's voting, to keep the laws current for the populations at hand, and for posterity.  If you think that a child is being under parented, you should call child services period, that's your duty to your community. If you don't think that the job that child services did was effective you should right your legislators and prominent community people for assistance. If that doesn't work, then you should  yourself work in an area in which you can help directly(like become a social worker don't just give chickens on christmas).

I think that's keeping it real-er lol. jk.

This is a topic that I have been talking & debating with people about for over 15 years so I think that it is WAY PAST time for us to finally be talking about it.  I am further offended that it took the Don Imus debacle to bring the issue to the forefront.....So are we TRULY not being "ruled" by the white man?

First, and foremost, I thought that Eric Michael Dyson, cultural critic extraordinare was magnificent.  He has always had a way of getting right to the point of the matter......and dumb *25*TI shouldve done a lot more listening, instead of talking!  Maybe then he wouldnt be looking like a dumb jerk with a life sentence lurking in his future.

What was missing was a thorough conversation of the crack epidemic and how its' emegence into urban communities has attributed to the major decline of families and parental values as well as the morality that Black people were always prided on....Many of you on this Board were born after 1984 and never lived in a world without crack.  Well, I was a senior in high school when it hit the scene.  And I have seen the devastating effects that this epidemic has left on our communities of color.  Not only did it decimate communities, but it also made our sons materialistically rich (at least in their eyes) and this became the only thing that mattered....making that paper.....without the thought of a life sentence in jail, or an early death..

So, I will say this....the issues that affect the Black community are multi-pronged.  It is not just the fault of the parents especially when you talking about grown *25*mofo's crying about what they missed out on from a jail cell.  No, dumby...you made the ignorant choices that you made.  You ddint listen to anyone but your BOYS.  I am as sickened by the behaviors of the young females. They are so filled with anger, and jealousy against their own sisters.   How ignorant are you to NOT realize that when a man calls one woman a ho, it aint a stretch for him to call you the same?

There is no respect anymore.  That was the one thing that we could rely on prior to crack entering the scene.  It's over now.......and it's EVERYONE'S FAULT!!!!

Crack is not my fault, and it's not the fault of anyone born in the 80's or subsequently. I wasn't a parent  during that time.  I'm not taking the blame for Crack or the break down of the black family as a result of Crack. I'm not going to do it. Because i was a baby literally. Now I can say that my generation will  be the ones to rebuild the african american community after all this Crack mess. Like i said many hip-hop artists are doing many things in their communities in various ways. It will be interesting see what my generation decides does to rebuild our communities after the Crack epidemic.  Especially since we have alot more african and carribean influences that we didn't have prior to Crack. I wonder what parts of the original african american culture and society my contemporaries will choose to pick back up on and which parts will be lost completely and which parts will be more influenced by africans and carribeans because we've had a larger influx of immigrations now. I think Whitney stated it best when she was talking to diane sawyer. Crack Is Whack!!! Crack is Cheap!!!

Ahh....I love a good debate. And a good debat-or. lol You definitely make some good and valid points. Holding parents for their accountability is definitely something that society has become laxed on and has become too lenient with. And as a result, you sometimes may ask yourself, who is the parent and which is the child? And for someone with no children, I feel HIGHLY about this because when I was younger I was taught respect and getting an education, and develop goals. I had to be in the house before a certain time or I'd get my butt whooped. I had chores (at a certain age). I did good in school. Graduated. Went to college......etc, etc.......And my point in you reading that is: Where is that now? Are the parents teaching this to these kids who are out-of-control and disturbing the peace? (no pun). Probably not. Or else, these kids would not be trying to imitate false icons. And I do have to admit (myself) that artists should tone down strong (sexual) innuendos and negative interpretation. And I'm a grown woman. When I see little girls dancing provocatively wining their little hips and trying to pop their butts, it makes me cringe. And I think, why does this girl know how to do this particular dance of all things. And where they most likely learned this from are lyrics to a song, or a visual on TV. Both are mega-influential peices of media. So, I cant truly say wholeheartedly that music (and its artists) are redeemed of any kinda responsibilty. To some degree, they are. In any event............you are definitely right in saying what it takes to getting things done in your community. To be proactive. BUT......(you knew that was coming).....alot of these "parents" are still children themselves, playing in the streets as well. So monkey see, monkey do. I would love to see our black community (with very minimal) disturbance and our people acting together as a front against another enemy. No, not the white man...but a front against the negativity and ugliness that can be felt in our hoods. Why does it have to be like this? It would feel good to have leaders who are really about change and not about money. It would be nice to depend on the law to execute just justice. And to administer it appropriately. But since this is not the society that "we" live in we must build up internally......all within ourselves first, then as a oneness. Off topic, I plan on adopting 2 kids after I give birth to my own. Just because there are so many kids who need a path to follow and a goal to attain. I am helping the world; he/she will become an adult in this society and if they are one with a head on their shoulders then that will be my duty. Way more priceless than a turkey....lol But overall, brownbrown01....you are def another person we need mutiplied mentally so we can make a change like that.

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"The best proof of love is trust"
"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom".

No Myspace, but I gotta place.....check out a few pics....

And I also agree with Divalicious99.....and my thinking on that is we MUST be a race with abilities much more keen and intelligent that things have been done SO MUCH to keep us down. To keep us hating and fighting each other; pure mental and physical genocide. We were once great. Its because we were; our ancestors; our grandaddies and grandmothers.....even now. Our style, our own way of talk, our skin color, our hair texture, our strength, our ability to struggle and prevail through the hardest of hard times?....hmmm, everything. Which is why (put in place) are obstacles to deter us from competing with them. Economically. And you can run amuck naming them. Its a sad realiziation that it could be a very, very long time before the black community can rewire their way of thinking and want to see a positive change.

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"The best proof of love is trust"
"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom".

No Myspace, but I gotta place.....check out a few pics....

You know I see that a lot of people are blaming parents for whats going wrong in America and they are right. I don't have children of my own, however, I have taken in two children who are not at all related to me. But I know that everyone needs love. I am 26 and I have been taking care of my 8 year old godson and his 11 year old sister since I was 18. I teach them that what they hear in music is not what you live by. The sister loves Lil Wayne and so does my fiancee and I let her listen because he and I both teach her whats right from wrong. We have to stop letting music raise our children and raise them ourselves. Stop blaming these rappers for your mistakes. I hear these same songs and that doesn't make me want to go shake my *** or kill people. You have to know that you are listening to a song that is meant to entertain you not to change your way of life. Stop pointing fingers at rappers and start raising your children.