Upon reading the previous conversations and feedbacks, I must chime in at this point. I was afraid to read on anymore as I was bothered by the lack of impact on the real issue, forgive me if I missed it. There is a small pro and con debate occurring on "Educated Blacks" and not on the impact of how "we" as a people are buying into self bigotry. Yes we do live in a society where the freedom of speech is expressed in a way that cost us our dignity and waters a seed of negativity that is throughout our community. I say waters the seed due to the fact that the issues that are apparent in the African-American culture/community stem from the home, we can point fingers all we want and blame an industry or form of entertainment for the exploitation and encouragement of this, but we need to begin to take responsibility at some point in order to make a turn around. I appreciate the references to good literary works by Fredrick Douglass and other enslaved individuals, they set a tone to a movement that has long passed. Unfortunately the imagery of what we represent in this world is set in a tone of mockery and degregation, which we buy into and promote. It is the responsibility of the parents and of the leaders (where ever they are) to reinforce the value of us as a people. Look around, drive ten or so miles out of a nice neighborhood lined with Starbucks, trees, parks and banks and continue into a neighborhood that is lined with Beauty Supplies and Liquor Stores and dilapidated buildings. The lack of discipline and respect that we once upheld has led us to breed a generation of individuals that pretend to be hardcore and survivalist thugs that "hustle" by means of self-destruction rather than take a bus ten miles out of town to a local community college and become something that can establish a positive generational tradition. This is the reason we have no businesses in our communities, why our public schools are so poorly upkept and overcrowded and our children run wild all hours of the day. We have a society where young mothers are left to fend for themselves as fathers and expected to raise upright citizens. The necessity of long hours and multiple jobs has taken the head out of the household leaving our children to raise themselves. In addition, we have young mothers that are so busy trying to befriend their children that they send them out daily to a pack of wolves. Who buys the painted on jeans for the 12 and 13 year olds out there? Who puts them in halter tops and booty shorts and sends their well developed child out into the world, knowing there was no male influence in the home to set a mark of integrity? We must take responsibility for our actions as we did in the past to begin the civil rights movement, we have to get fed up and quit waiting for a leader to arise and tell us what to do when the Bible clearly states how we are to live. I must make a correction on your statement on Karma, it is a now thing, you reap what you sow (Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he reapeth) God blesses and curses from generation to generation, reincarnation is a thing of Egyptian belief, when we die, the only new body we will put on is a cloak for our spirit. God is not returning for flesh but he will judge your "fleshly" acts accordingly. You've read many books, read the Bible, the New International Version is good for those that don't understand all of the thus's and thy's. To wrap this up I must reiterate the importance of responsibility, turn the channel when the wrong song comes on, stop running out to buy the latest CD for your child without knowing what the message is and pull out a board game to exercise their mind. Read to your kids. Do you know how many houses I go to and the kids don't have books?? Go to the library, it's free and the kids enjoy it. Get off of the phone and take your baby to the park, get them out of the neighborhood and take them to the museums and theaters, it's not acting white, it's educating them, it's letting them know that although you may not live in the best neighborhood or location, there is more. Stop spending your full income tax return on rims and paint jobs and go on a vacation with your kids, let them want to aspire to do more. Encourage your intelligent child, educate them, put them in karate, extra cirricular activities and stop letting the TV and radio raise them, if you don't know what to get them to stimulate their minds, get off of MySpace and research on your internet or try a bike, remember that? Explain to them what is going on in this world, our children are so much smarter than we give them credit for. Let them see you read and most importantly get God back in your life, he was in the backbone of the slaves that made them want out and the fuel in the fire of the Civil Rights movment, when we began to rebel, we got lost. The children of Israel spent 40 years making a five day journey, look at that, we've spent 400 so far, when are we going to stop Upon reading the previous conversations and feedbacks, I must chime in at this point. I was afraid to read on anymore as I was bothered by the lack of impact on the real issue, forgive me if I missed it. There is a small pro and con debate occurring on "Educated Blacks" and not on the impact of how "we" as a people are buying into self bigotry. Yes we do live in a society where the freedom of speech is expressed in a way that cost us our dignity and waters a seed of negativity that is throughout our community. I say waters the seed due to the fact that the issues that are apparent in the African-American culture/community stem from the home, we can point fingers all we want and blame an industry or form of entertainment for the exploitation and encouragement of this, but we need to begin to take responsibility at some point in order to make a turn around. I appreciate the references to good literary works by Fredrick Douglass and other enslaved individuals, they set a tone to a movement that has long passed. Unfortunately the imagery of what we represent in this world is set in a tone of mockery and degregation, which we buy into and promote. It is the responsibility of the parents and of the leaders (where ever they are) to reinforce the value of us as a people. Look around, drive ten or so miles out of a nice neighborhood lined with Starbucks, trees, parks and banks and continue into a neighborhood that is lined with Beauty Supplies and Liquor Stores and dilapidated buildings. The lack of discipline and respect that we once upheld has led us to breed a generation of individuals that pretend to be hardcore and survivalist thugs that "hustle" by means of self-destruction rather than take a bus ten miles out of town to a local community college and become something that can establish a positive generational tradition. This is the reason we have no businesses in our communities, why our public schools are so poorly upkept and overcrowded and our children run wild all hours of the day. We have a society where young mothers are left to fend for themselves as fathers and expected to raise upright citizens. The necessity of long hours and multiple jobs has taken the head out of the household leaving our children to raise themselves. In addition, we have young mothers that are so busy trying to befriend their children that they send them out daily to a pack of wolves. Who buys the painted on jeans for the 12 and 13 year olds out there? Who puts them in halter tops and booty shorts and sends their well developed child out into the world, knowing there was no male influence in the home to set a mark of integrity? We must take responsibility for our actions as we did in the past to begin the civil rights movement, we have to get fed up and quit waiting for a leader to arise and tell us what to do when the Bible clearly states how we are to live. I must make a correction on your statement on Karma, it is a now thing, you reap what you sow (Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he reapeth) God blesses and curses from generation to generation, reincarnation is a thing of Egyptian belief, when we die, the only new body we will put on is a cloak for our spirit. God is not returning for flesh but he will judge your "fleshly" acts accordingly. You've read many books, read the Bible, the New International Version is good for those that don't understand all of the thus's and thy's. To wrap this up I must reiterate the importance of responsibility, turn the channel when the wrong song comes on, stop running out to buy the latest CD for your child without knowing what the message is and pull out a board game to exercise their mind. Read to your kids. Do you know how many houses I go to and the kids don't have books?? Go to the library, it's free and the kids enjoy it. Get off of the phone and take your baby to the park, get them out of the neighborhood and take them to the museums and theaters, it's not acting white, it's educating them, it's letting them know that although you may not live in the best neighborhood or location, there is more. Stop spending your full income tax return on rims and paint jobs and go on a vacation with your kids, let them want to aspire to do more. Encourage your intelligent child, educate them, put them in karate, extra cirricular activities and stop letting the TV and radio raise them, if you don't know what to get them to stimulate their minds, get off of MySpace and research on your internet or try a bike, remember that? Explain to them what is going on in this world, our children are so much smarter than we give them credit for. Let them see you read and most importantly get God back in your life, he was in the backbone of the slaves that made them want out and the fuel in the fire of the Civil Rights movment, when we began to rebel, we got lost. The children of Israel spent 40 years making a five day journey, look at that, we've spent 400 so far, when are we going to stop Everything you say is with a positive tone. I'm saying you do have good intentions but i can also see that your brain is wrapped within the borders of America/US psychology. Different cultures have their own definition of Karma you should have thought to ask which one I'm referring to. referring to great egyptian civilization doesn't have any relevance to black culture in the us since most of us are west african-we are far from the nubian pride...eventhough egypt is in Africa and some of those monuments are black men/women. Did most of us blacks outside of Africa ever even thought of learning an african dialect...? does'nt that show how proud you claim to be of race and your past? The problem is we keep trying to separate ourselves within. The more we tell the children: oh those are educated and you're dumb! the more we'll stay in this never ending cycle. why don't we pick each other's hands and help each other out? start looking within our own community. The nightmare of blacks started when muslims and christians entered Africa...just look at Sudan and tell me I'm lying. when you reject your true culture you lose pride in yourself and then you start losing your society little bit by little bit...and yes, we do cause problems within our own race. we are human it's always going to be like that. What family is perfect?

I do agree with some things you say. Just one thing, no man need to know how to read and write in order to recognize that he is being mistreated...make no mistake! That's implying that our ancestors were so imbecile they couldn't even recognize when they were being belittled. Remember before english they had their own languages...whether they wrote it or didn't <BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>omarisun17 wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4"><P><FONT color=#0000ff>Educated blacks or educated people of any groups are always trying to hide what the mass of the people really look and live like. Every man would like his vision to be the one that represents his race. That is where all educated blacks are wrong. A lot of them would bleach up their skin if they could-- just to get accepted by outside race(s).</FONT></P> <P>You lose steam right here because you attack the people you're talking about. Just because a black man is educated does not mean he wants to be white or that he would ever bleach his skin. I honestly never would do that I believe I have a beauitful skin tone and most educated blacks I run into feel the same. --((IDOLG>>RE:(------I'm not attacking anyone. I'm just stating the reality that plays and replays in the business world. They are not trying to be white. They just act in a measured level of acceptance in order to eat. Let's face it! you are only as strong as who controls the food chain. I think all cultures suffer from this in America. They sometimes have to put aside their traditional ways to fit in or most importantly to survive...)))))</P> <P> <FONT color=#0000ff>if it was (not) for educated blacks, we as black people would (will?) never be free. -------IDOLG <<RE:<<It's not cool to alter someone's words...that's bad media ethics---------</FONT></P> <P>False, if blacks hadn't found a way to educate themselves they would still be slaves. Read "Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass" he was an educated black and he did not have the same option for education as we do now. After his slave owner forbid his kind hearted wife from teaching Frederick to read, Frederick used his MIND to trick the young white kids into teaching him to read and write by telling them that he already could making them want to prove him wrong. He was smart. The reason slave owners didn't want their slaves to read was because they knew that eventually they would come to understand how poor their condition was and rebel. If education was that important then how is it less important now? Now that we're free of teh actual shackles, we have to free ourselves of the new "imaginary shackles." This includes: shackles of the mind that prevent us from seeing how powerful and blessed we are/can be and shackles of the dollar that make us think that money is the solution to our problems. MOney helps, but it is possible to live a poor and good life. ----------((Idol-G(((---Well  if you read about Jean-Jacques Dessalines you would understand where I'm coming from... I'm not a rapper. I barely listen to hip hop. I am black. I just think Americans are too hard on themselves about something that's just (a part) of their culture. I think one should embrace a part of themselves. I'm not saying every part of something is perfect --but does it have to be? Looking at this from a outside point of view, I think it's great "art" once it is understood. The mass of a people will always represent a race whether we like it or not. It is not the few at the top that will ever represent it-- especially for a formerly oppressed race.What the ones at the top or educated ones need to do is provide real education in the classroom about these people/black children. Provide them with their real history. Don't let them wait to get to college so they can research for the reality about their origin. Without a good sense of history one cannot have a good sense of pride, a good sense of family, community and so on...How can you sing about you if you don't fully know whom you are? We teach them American History so we can stand under the pretense of one flag. The more we lie to them the worse it will get.Education reflects in people's songs. Since some of us claim to be so educated, are we truly educating our children? I'm in my early twenties and I'll tell you I'll stand before any educated black on this planet and show him/her what's really wrong--------))))))))  </P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff> Hip-hop is a continuous revolution from slavery where the soul of the black ancestors live through their people and can never be laid to rest (bad karma).</FONT></P> <P>? I think this means HIp-hop evolved from slavery. i'm not sure about the second part. Also, bad karma only hits the person who does the bad things after they die and are reincarnated. Karma is not for this life. ((((---IDOLG-- RE: Karma depends on which culture you're reffering to...and no i'm not saying hip hop evolved from slavery. I'm saying you can see the soul of the slaves in the faces of our children today. The children yearn to be free it is a rebellion called "i don't want to become you" they want to remain African despite all that's been done to deprive them of that image. It's something a black man can only see if he is from an outside culture. Hip hop, the slaves or ex slaves is saying: hey, I have my own way. I have my own understanding of beauty. I don't want to become what you want me to be even if it takes destroying myself!" the revolution lives on. Slaves being homesick and yearn to be free. When you go out on the street look again with different eyes. The kids don't know they're part of a ongoing revolution. It's been passed down to them from their great grandfather to your tv screen. The only thing, is it became like the movie "THE LAST SAMURAI" these ways are no longer needed because we have no place in Africa to return to----------))))</P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff> If you're black and you live in the americas since early 1500s, you're no longer African.</FONT></P> <P>True we are not longer african and a lot of our problems stems from the fact that we've had to completely reinvent ourselves culturally. Still, we've done quite well and if you read things written by black africans (since africa is mixed now too) you will see how our culture has influenced them. Read Kaffir Boy by Mark Mathabane. he grew up in south african apartheid and wrote his story in that book. Some of it is twisted because ghettos are everywhere it's not just america. Mathabane looked up to Arthur Ashe and also noted how when the black power movement was going on in America, Africans would try their hands at having afros.  </P> <P> <FONT color=#0000ff>You've been a victim of psychological genocide.</FONT></P> <P>True, although I would say it was primarily culturally. </P> <P> <FONT color=#0000ff>your language or education is non-african...</FONT></P> <P>TRue, now we speak English which is the American launguage. But that doesn't make it bad. English is spoken all over the world and is taught in schools outside of America.</P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff>your religions and beliefs are made up</FONT></P> <P>False, theya re inherited from the Christian beliefs of the slaves, which admittedly came from their slave owners. Christianity is not a bad thing and I believe it to be true. There is a story in the bible about an ethiopian eunuch who found Christ. He was fully african and didn't have a problem with the gospel. Also, you could say this about anyones beliefs. Since your beliefs belong to you, they could just as easily be made up by you.</P> <P>, <FONT color=#0000ff>your brain is non African eventhough your style today is more tribal than Africans..</FONT></P> <P>? Your brain is your brain. Style doesn't have anything to do with your brain...i don't think.</P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff>.They created a monster out of Africans and now they're afraid of it.</FONT></P> <P>True in part. A lot of our culture has entered into a vicious and monstrous cycle and a lot fo white people in power are afraid of it. Racist thoughts aside.</P> <P> <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #0000ff">They play pirates in cinemas to our black children as heroes and the blackman as the only gangster.</FONT></P> <P>See Denzel Washington. This is only partly true and is still in the process of changing. Also see, Robert Townsend. They do play pirates as heroes which is dumb. But they also have white gansters or asian gangsters. they may be rarer in some cases but i am not sure.</P> <P><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" color=#0000ff>...Blacks today live like a son who can never please his father so he keeps on trying. We keep trying to please the master- we feel as if no matter what we do is ever good enough. I think we may just want to start to appreciate ourselves.</FONT></P> <P>Some blacks probably live like this, but it seems to me that most do not. In fact, a lot of people resent "master" and want him to just leave them alone. THey are trying to beat the system and whatnot.</P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff> People who speak Ebonics are not stupid. They are geniuses. They are speaking a language made up from the English they were forbidden to learn eventhough they needed to understand it to work for the master. Their thumb would be cut if they'd try to learn and write it.</FONT></P> <P>Ebonics is English with slang in it. It's just a way of expressing the same language. It isn't "made up" it's just a part of it. That's why it's considered to be a less educated part of it because it's usually spoken by those who haven't learned all there is to know about english as a language. It's kind of like a dialect...meaning it's the same thing with some changes depending on who is using it. If you listen to an irish or scottish man you will also see and hear the g's get left off of words like moving, making them into movin'. Ebonics probably just evolved from the fragmented way black slaves had to learn english. Since they weren't formally taught they had to observe and learn on their own...which many did and also led to misinterpretations and grammatical mistakes. Although that doesn't mean that whites of teh time didn't do the same sort of things. You are right that this doesn't mean the person is stupid since a lot of intelligent people have been known to use it. You're right about the thumb thing. But, the slaves likely only really needed to learn what certain commands meant to work for master. they also need to understand that they will be whipped for not obeying. </P> <P> <FONT color=#0000ff>The stupid people are the so called educated black leaders who never tried to create a grammar and dictionary for this language created off the English by black slaves in America. That is why spanish will become Americas(US) second language and the people who build America with their barehands, the people who fought for America to be free will soon be set to the back corners again.</FONT></P> <P>Why create a dictionary for a language pretty easliy understand. Just because some white lady in San Diego or somewhere was like I can't understand youuuu to some black kids doesn't mean it needs a dictionary. It's ENGLISH with slight changes in grammar and structure or whatever. It's really easy to tell what someone means when they say "i'm gonna beat yo *** F***kin a**" or when they "we wanna play b***h" (from hardball). Spanish becoming America's second language is not a big deal for this reason, it's a big deal because of immigrants coming over and that's not the purpose of this argument.</P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff>.Dr king (MLK) set the mood of the world towards blacks in a dormant state. It is because of him i can write this here today but at the same time he hurts all black people...there can be no integration if what you're integrating with has far exceeded you in education, technology, etc... you'd be a fool if you believe that you could really integrate economically, etc...need i say</FONT> <BR></P> <P>I do not see how MLK hurts black people when he is no longer active. Peacefully achieving his and our means did not push blacks into a dormant state. Even malcolm x started to really consider what he was doing might be wrong before he died. violence is not the answer elevation of our culture is we can only do that with education and people who go back to help those who they once we like. We have integrated quite well, so well that interracial dating is become less of an issue. We are no longer exceed by whites in education except for where we allow. Usually this means the inner-city becuase there isn't much incentive to learn there. if we can put some there we'll really catch up. BLacks have invented many things we use today and we are are not equal to whites then something is wrong. we are clearly equal. Economic integration isn't something I would know about, but being poor isn't necessarily a bad thing although it isn't a preferred situation. also, if people would have a heart and help out the destitute they would cease to exist. the real problem is that we don't love our neighbors lilke ourselves. The point is whites aren't ahead of us really. ((IDOLG-RE:((---------Jeez! I am not saying blacks are dormant (maybe). I am saying the negative attitude towards blacks from other races is dormant today. It can be erupted at any time. The only reason it's dormant it's because blacks turn the other cheek. we forgive our oppressors(some of us). We don't control the food chain/supply we have to do so. Our mothers teach us to turn the other cheek to survive...it may seem I'm off the subject, but hip hop is just a part of black culture a lot of other black issues are related to. how it got to be the way it is? It is not a creation of young man from poor neighborhoods, but what pushed them to create such art?--I hope we're not arguing but looking for solutions to make the lives of our children better...the future generation....----------))))RE:<BR></P></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I finally saw it last night.   I agree with that Dyson man from Georgetown, TI and Nelly's fine ***.  Oh, Mellisa and that Latin-looking woman made the most sense for us women.Someone was right when he/she said instead of blaming hip-hop, we need to blame ourselves because this crap only makes it on TV because the stations want higher ratings and they want the countdown to actually be what we like (why Video Soul was dropped for 106).Perfect example, that dumb Players Circle video will be #1 soon because that girl's butt is shown a lot.  The video was #19 or 13 on the Sucker Free countdown this morning.Dumb videos with lots of cars or bling (Jay Z) or big butts, etc (the Kanye new one) often make it to the top faster.  It's a shame how we are, but I'm guilty of this too because I only voted for J Holiday and 50 Cent because they're cute (not half-naked or showing expensive things).Al Sharpton should be glad he's not running for president next year, because even while it's 98% true, what he said will come back to haunt him.

I apologize for any misconception that you may have read, but my reference to the Egyptian culture is due to the comment on reincarnation (please read it again).  I am fully aware of the developmental and technological advances that took place in the Egyptian empire that still influence the world today.  As far as Karma, my real name is the definition of Karma in many languages I'm fully aware of its background and meaning.  As far as my mind being wrapped in US psychology, I thank you for the comparison, I've never studied the subject since the 10th grade, none of it stuck with me.  My brain stems from a personal relationship with God and my experiences with him, he blessed me with an avid mind and common sense, I don't need any other influences to draw personal conclusions.  I am pleased in that.  My statement was in regard to the issue of what I believed my topic was, personal responsibility, I may have mentioned that three times or more. 

It would be lovely to reverse the stereotypes that we've adopted from white America centuries ago.  Please remember that the images we've seen as a people coming to this nation were negative and derogatory, my only issue is that we now encourage and celebrate the behavior by belittling ourselves.  It is a shame that the one network in full rotation that we have available to us, BET attempts to reach us and entertain us with the ideals that forty years ago, we would not stand for, I now have to pay for my Neo-Soul videos by way of a white network, VH1. 

I understand that we are in a different time frame, the question is where did we lose our ground, and what are we going to do to get it back?

When it all boils down to it, we as an American society, (that's what we are now, we've lost the African aspect after slavery) need to pick up the broken pieces and begin to look for a positive means to represent the beauty of the black culture.  How great we are that God made us all shades of the rainbow.  Our schools have written us out of history, spend a month teaching us about MLK and Malcolm X and we stand for it.  As a mother I take it upon myself to let my children know that there are more than two individuals that contributed to the American culture, that took a stand and demanded change for the mistreatment of a people, that invented and created things that we use to this day, such as the clothes dryer.  I'm asking that you all do the same.  To educate ourselves and each other is our responsibility, generations will continue to pass waiting for someone to stand up and do it for us, I do what I can for the little ones I come in contact with, I pray I am allowed to do more before I die.

Understanding that no family or individual is perfect is a good cover-up for the domino effect that is beginning now, that statement has aided individuals in throwing their hands up and walking away, it helped silence the voice that we once had when we made a change, I guess voting was good enough we must not see the need for more.  The none of our business attitude is killing the world right now.  It's comical how we feel that the acts of others don't affect us until it's right at our front door taking hold of our children, it doesn't matter when they're not yours.  I don't feel that way.  I hate that our daughters believe that prostituting is cool and are performing elicit acts in elementary school bathrooms now for candy or a dollar!  This is a cry out for help, I'm doing my best to respond, I take responsibility for my actions, even if the advise or information I offer is not received as I like it, it's my human duty to not let someone fall who I see tripping, I appreciate your interest in doing the same, all truths don't sit well, conviction is a powerful thing, it promotes change, one reason again that I stick to what feels "real" to me and not comfortable, what has consumed me, it's the power of God.

I like hippop, o mygoodness who doesn't like it? but it need to slow down little bit, with those naked shaking. it's an entertainment and that is good, but those videos are public, and some of those make me say wow!! dignity, everything seem okey- let's take off our clothes-oh are we in the beach? maybe.What infuence is that? let's face it, it's okey to take off your clothes.the next thing  is what we gonna see when we go to the mall/street.but guys no, they have their pants on, it's us womens why? o no they pay us. Just try to figure this one out. the next generation is gonna make it worse, but that's okey, if somebody tried to say hold on.

I believe all you, me ,and the rest of us debating is doing is talk to make ourselves sound intelligent by quoting books after books ad showing what we read or heard somewhere. Let's be real! What are we leaving behind for the generation coming after us. People came before us and they are gone,we are here and we'll be gone, the ones coming after us will be gone too. What are we doing as we speak? What is the solution (s) to all the talk? Let's not just do useless arguments just to sound good. Politicians are great example of that problem in people. All talk but no action!<BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>calibelle79 wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4"><P><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#800080><FONT size=2>I apologize for any misconception that you may have read, but my reference to the Egyptian culture is due to the comment on reincarnation (please read it again).  I am fully aware of the developmental and technological advances that took place in the Egyptian empire that still influence the world today.  As far as Karma, my real name is the definition of Karma in many languages I'm fully aware of its background and meaning.  As far as my mind being wrapped in US psychology, I thank you for the comparison, I've never studied the subject since the 10th grade, none of it stuck with me.  My brain stems from a personal relationship with God and my experiences with him, he blessed me with an avid mind and common sense, I don't need any other influences to draw personal conclusions.  I am pleased in that.  My statement was in regard to the issue of what I believed my topic was, personal responsibility, I may have mentioned that three times or more.  <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#800080><FONT size=2>It would be lovely to reverse the stereotypes that we've adopted from white <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">America</st1:place></st1:country-region> centuries ago.  Please remember that the images we've seen as a people coming to this nation were negative and derogatory, my only issue is that we now encourage and celebrate the behavior by belittling ourselves.  It is a shame that the one network in full rotation that we have available to us, BET attempts to reach us and entertain us with the ideals that forty years ago, we would not stand for, I now have to pay for my Neo-Soul videos by way of a white network, VH1.  <o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#800080><FONT size=2>I understand that we are in a different time frame, the question is where did we lose our ground, and what are we going to do to get it back?<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#800080><FONT size=2>When it all boils down to it, we as an American society, (that's what we are now, we've lost the African aspect after slavery) need to pick up the broken pieces and begin to look for a positive means to represent the beauty of the black culture.  How great we are that God made us all shades of the rainbow.  Our schools have written us out of history, spend a month teaching us about MLK and Malcolm X and we stand for it.  As a mother I take it upon myself to let my children know that there are more than two individuals that contributed to the American culture, that took a stand and demanded change for the mistreatment of a people, that invented and created things that we use to this day, such as the clothes dryer.  I'm asking that you all do the same.  To educate ourselves and each other is our responsibility, generations will continue to pass waiting for someone to stand up and do it for us, I do what I can for the little ones I come in contact with, I pray I am allowed to do more before I die.<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial color=#800080 size=2>Understanding that no family or individual is perfect is a good cover-up for the domino effect that is beginning now, that statement has aided individuals in throwing their hands up and walking away, it helped silence the voice that we once had when we made a change, I guess voting was good enough we must not see the need for more.  The none of our business attitude is killing the world right now.  It's comical how we feel that the acts of others don't affect us until it's right at our front door taking hold of our children, it doesn't matter when they're not yours.  I don't feel that way.  I hate that our daughters believe that prostituting is cool and are performing elicit acts in elementary school bathrooms now for candy or a dollar!  This is a cry out for help, I'm doing my best to respond, I take responsibility for my actions, even if the advise or information I offer is not received as I like it, it's my human duty to not let someone fall who I see tripping, I appreciate your interest in doing the same, all truths don't sit well, conviction is a powerful thing, it promotes change, one reason again that I stick to what feels "real" to me and not comfortable, what has consumed me, it's the power of God.</FONT></P></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe all you, me ,and the rest of us debating is doing is talk to make ourselves sound intelligent by quoting books after books ad showing what we read or heard somewhere. Let's be real! What are we leaving behind for the generation coming after us. People came before us and they are gone,we are here and we'll be gone, the ones coming after us will be gone too. What are we doing as we speak? What is the solution (s) to all the talk? Let's not just do useless arguments just to sound good. Politicians are great example of that problem in people. All talk but no action!

Yeah It's always good to know that people are well read. It's interesting to find out where people draw their intellectual influences from, but we really need to stop all these black on black knowledge wars.

 brownbrown01 wrote:Yeah It's always good to know that people are well read. It's interesting to find out where people draw their intellectual influences from, but we really need to stop all these black on black knowledge wars. Is that the only response you could come up with?  Like Nas implied in I Know I Can, we don't all have to be afraid of intellect and black knowledge has been around for a long time.  So, what's your problem?   I think the problem in hip-hop is some of them are under-educated, so their music often shows that we are dumb and that further leads to negative stereotypes of us.   It's a shame that more of them don't do what Russel Simmons did (bragged about his kids' intelligence on this show).   

You know what, both sides are right but this is how I feel. First off, rappers today are selling themselves out. I watched the episodes and Nelly wants to know why people are attacking him. Well how are you gonna do videos with half naked women and treating them like *58* and then try to do something positive. Don't get me wrong, I'm a man that loves to see that but when you try to do positive things and keep doing those things, nobody is gonna take you seriously. Nelly doesn't get it. You can't do on thing and then try to do another and expect to be taken seriously. Rappers go out and say "this is me and this is how I live". I seen where rappers try to relate to themselves to actors. Rappers and Actors are two different things. You don't see Al Pacino going around saying that he really is Scarface. You don't see Wesley Snipes going around saying he's Neno Brown or Simon Pheonix. When you see rappers out or doing interviews they try to stay so close to their rap persona. I lived in St. Louis and Nelly isn't what he appears. I known people that went to school with him and they said that he was nothing like how he is as a rapper. Then their was one incident where you weren't allowed to wear du-rags in a certain store and he caused this big thing about how it's racial profiling. True. But then when he got the city to do a march about racial profiling, Nelly was a no show. He said it was bad for his image. Come on Nelly and you wonder why people attack YOU! Rappers sells themselves just for the money instead of the art of it. The rappers that started hip-hop did it because they liked to do it. Not for the money. The money came later. So now we got all these rappers putting out "what sells" and then they try to defend themselves when somebody confronts them about it. It's a shame that it takes a show like this for them to explain themselves instead of putting it in their songs. That's why I repect rappers like Nas, Lupie Fiasco, Q-Tip, Mos Def because they rap for the love of it, not ther money. So rappers, quit selling out and do it for the love of hip-hop not money.

The problem with this is that an overwhelming majority of us that are descended from slaves do not know what part of Africa we are actually from. It is impossible for us to want to learn a language if we can't even figure out what area we came from. All the years of slavery and ripping apart of families disfigured us culturally and we lost contact with our roots. The specific word Karma is sanskrit I believe. Either way that particular word refers to Hinduism. Now you're right in the fact that the concept Karma refers to is in other cultures. The Bible says "you reap what you sow". those do crop up everywhere, but karma actually refers to future lives and reincarnation. I just think it is better to saw what you do will be given back to you. or "you reap what you sow" because to me it sounds more in this life. That's just a preference I guess. But back to the other subject...for a lot of us we don't know exactly where we're from. That information was lost a long time ago. Black culture (that is non-African blacks) has had to build itself up from the ground up. So, language is a hard thing for us because there were many different African nations involved in the slave trade. I agree that no one should ever tell their child: you're dumb and not educated. Every child should believe that they can make it. The problem is this doesn't seem to be happening. There are bad parents out there who either show no interest in their kids, or say and do terrible things to them which can cause people to just shut up and shut out. So, then you've got kids running around with no real direction and feeling like they have no value. When this happens people lash out, so when they see a "smart" person in their class they bully them or whatever. In a lot of inner-city areas you see this happen, where the "smart" kid is a punk or thinks he/she is better than everyone. When you're a kid you want to fit in, so doing well in school sometimes becomes secondary. I believe that most black youth are intelligent and can do so much better. I mean you look at the rappers who have made it and you see that they are actually very smart...the ones that had to live one way before survived on their wits and a little bit of help from above. So, the talent is there we just need to stop letting kids slip through the cracks. We need to help each other out a lot, and stop all the infighting. Although, I must say that most cultures have some sort of infighting. Even in America we have what is called "white trash" is that not the same thing? Other countries are like this too and it's really sad. Look at the Sunni muslims and the other branch whose name escapes me. It's terrible how much blood is shed because of differences like that. We do need to help our own communities and stop blasting people who try to do so. I disagree with the notion that the new religions of Islam and Christianity starting the problems for blacks. All of mankind is screwed up, so all of the wickedness that goes on now went on then even if it was in different forms. When you really look at the conflicts we have you see that it's really just state of men's hearts that cause them. We all say we want peace, but who really goes out and tries it? Mankind (everyone) is to blame for crises like Sudan, not God or any other scapegoat we could fine. The problem is, no one knows how to stop all that is going wrong. I think that our society was already destroyed as far as knowing what nation we are from or even keeping african names. WE lost all of that and have had to come up with something form pretty much scratch. We've done quite well and are often imitated. (i.e. in music or style) I agree with your last statement, but that doesn't mean we should give up. We just can't do that...giving in is not an option. About egypt...that's a mixed bag because it is african and middle eastern. It's difficult. Still, we don't know if any nubians moved to western africa. For other problems that had nothing to do with religion watch "The Last King of Scotland" I think the dictators name was Idi Amin. He just died I believe. But yeah, thanks for the good discussion.

very true. I think the only way is through change within the heart. This is only done through Christianity. Seriously, imagine if we truly loved our neighbor as ourselves. We wouldn't feel the need to steal, talk down to others, or kill. There wouldn't be any need and we wouldn't want to bring harm upon someone we love intentional right? I think the soul must be taken care of...and doing that means being disciplined and getting more connected with our creator. Other more practical means: get involved with your kids (whenever you have them) this means coming to school functions, loving them, disciplining them, and telling them what's wrong and right while living it. Help with other peoples kids too. It takes a village. Praise the right things. Don't glamorize lifestyles that will cause detriment..i.e. pimping, prostitution...those people shouldn't live like that. i know in some cases it's seems like the only option but there are other ways. Don't sell drugs...to anyone not just black folk. Watch what we say in music. just because you're free to do something doesn't mean it's good for you or others. stop dividing ourselves...how to do this I dunno it's difficult. but we need to consider everyone to be our brother and sister in more than just name. these are the only actions i can think of.

I do agree with some things you say. Just one thing, no man need to know how to read and write in order to recognize that he is being mistreated...make no mistake! That's implying that our ancestors were so imbecile they couldn't even recognize when they were being belittled. Remember before english they had their own languages...whether they wrote it or didn't You're probably right on that, I think it's more difficult in the cases where this is all they have known. The original slaves had to know they were being mistreated and disrespected. it's also likely they taught this to younger slaves. but sometimes people just don't know any better and education can help you come across things you've never thought. But I agree with you in part. Jeez! I am not saying blacks are dormant (maybe). I am saying the negative attitude towards blacks from other races is dormant today. It can be erupted at any time. I agree with that. Although, I don't think all individuals within other races think of us negatively. The only reason it's dormant it's because blacks turn the other cheek. we forgive our oppressors(some of us). Probably true in part. it may seem I'm off the subject, but hip hop is just a part of black culture a lot of other black issues are related to. how it got to be the way it is? It is not a creation of young man from poor neighborhoods, but what pushed them to create such art?--I hope we're not arguing but looking for solutions to make the lives of our children better...the future generation.... i agree again. hip hop is a part of our cultural and use to be a lot different. Things have changed and money has been exchanged and that messes with everything. I think what we need to do is just take care of our kids. no more baby daddy drama. we need to teach them what's right and do it early. we also need to be examples. that should be enough. father's stay and help the mother's out. I think that a lot of what mainstream hip hop artists did before they made it was a little different. but hopefully we'll get some more lauryn hills', will smith's, krs-one's out there. i dig it.

 T.I. and Nelly I laugh at you guys cause this is why we in this horrid stereotype.  The reason why people are trashing hip hop like they are harder then ever before because right now it is COMPLETE TRASH.  It is not diverse like it use to be and I am sick and tired of hearing the same bs rappers with no skills on the radio.  For crying out loud to all you people who say ,"Man listen to T.I. he is rapping positive blah blah blah."  BUT THEN HE GETS ARRESTED FOR POSSESING GUNS.  AND TI GETS EXTREMLY OFFENSIVE TO ANY RAPPER WHO CLAIMS THAT HE ISNT THE KING OF THE SOUTH.  IS THAT CHILDISH OR WHAT. DOES OUR RACE HAVE TO BE THE ONLY RACE TO MAKE MUSIC AND BEEF WITH EACHOTHER. Good God the hiphop music industry cant even come together.  And dont say I am wrong because you know good and well who all is beefing in hip hop.  EVERYONE IS BEEFING WITH EACH OTHER LIKE THIS IS SOME HOODTYPE BUSINESS.

 

It is a damn shame that black people has to be the ONLY RACE IN AMERICA that comes out with music thats deragatory and we cant even get our own hip hop artist to get along with each other.  You dont see brittany spears and christina agulera beefing do you?  You dont see Korn and Slip Knot beefing do you?  Good God black people we trying to improve ourselves BUT WE SUPPORT NONSENSE!!!  AND PLZ DO NOT TELL ME THERE ARE GOOD RAPPERS OUT THERE I ALREADY KNOW BUT THEY AINT GETTING AIRPLAY BECAUSE OUR BLACKS WONT LET THEM GET ENOUGH RADIO PLAY.  And we know how hard the media is coming down on our community on rap BUT DO THE RAPPERS CARE HELL NO "IT IS ALL ABOUT THAT MONEY N-I-G-G-A,  DAT BLING BLING,  I DISS H-O-E-S FO DA DOUGH,  SO I'M GOING TO KEEP LIVING THE STERORTYPE!" 

So hell no man T.I. and Nelly aint got *73* to defend about hip hop you guys need to just face the reality about these rappers and their negitive influence.  The world is watching lets for once look positive and break free from THESE HOOD MENTALITY CHAINS!!!

I can understand where your coming from but your centering the world primarily on your personally views. Yes, the United States is referred to as a so called melting pot. But, I know you must understand that it is far from that. America may as well be called the united divided. In a way ( to me at least ) that is what makes it interesting. My best suggestion to you is if you’re so opposed to the new hip hop try changing your desired genre of music. Unfortunately this sad pattern seems like it is going to continue as long as there is a consumer base foolish enough to purchase it. Sorry

And your right it is all about the pursuit of the all mighty dollar, but one can’t give the expectation to a rapper who in most cases is a high school drop out or barely skewed by the system to understand what he is really putting out. Human beings are completely uninventive and once something has been solidified as cool it carries a lot of steam. So, this same artist who is just following in the footsteps of his rap forefathers has no great tribulation to speak out against. And the corporation has already sunk its teeth deep into the culture of hip hop. So what can you expect they are in the same bed together, and what do you get. A finely package product engineered to marketable perfection again I apologize but that’s the way the ball bounces.