black_optimus wrote:

the laws of God are clear on homosexuality.  it's a sin.  should the church be preaching that?  yes.  should the church preach redemption for that like it does for other sins?  of course.  but church isn't a place where sinners should feel good about what they're doing. i'm not homophobic (to stop anybody from trying to throw that out there), but u can't argue with the Creator.  even from a scientific standpoint, it's unnatural.  after all, the species can't survive from homosexual sex--it doesn't produce any offspring.  gays do deserve equal treatment under the law but that doesn't mean society should accept it as okay...

and for the person who said  the word of God can be delivered by someone on the down-low, that's a ridiculous statement.  someone on the down-low is LYING about their lifestyle--to their friends, families (including girlfriends, wives and children) and to themselves.  a person with that much dishonesty has no business preaching the word of God. 

If dishonest people have no business preaching the word of God, the bible would have never been written, because it is the ultimate lie.

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http://www.faithfreedom.org
http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com
http://www.humantruth.info

@black_optimus:  So if we are all born into sin, and will continue to sin until the end, who then is qualified to teach the word of God, as there is none perfect but God.  Who decided what degree of sin is eligible to teach the word.  Sin is sin, and we all do it and will continue to do it, so who's the best teacher, .is it the divorcee, the alcoholic, the lesbian, the cigarette smoker, the gossiper...who?  We are all tainted, so who decides how much taint is "acceptable" or how tainted one cannot be in order for God not to use them.  Your, "a person with that much dishonesty has no business preaching the word of God" subjects God to "your limitations" of his "moves in mysterious ways" and overall ability to be THE ALMIGHTY.  What if that DL has a message meant for you and God's has purposed him on your Life's path, to teach you how to look beyond the man and hear the word...to teach you acceptance great and small because you too at one time was blind but someone helped you to see, to  teach you how a judgement of one thing about an entire person discredits your ability to see the entire person God created. 

I would think that an infinate Almighty "God" would be able to use who, what, when and where to spread the word or to get across his message of hope and forgiveness.  That the minds of humanity is so fragile as to allow one facet of a human's total diamond to void him capable of being used by God, therein suggests a bigger problem nee sin...that we are telling God who he can and cannot use.  Doing so, one would be blashphemous, thinking himself or herself God...a sin no greater than the Down Low minister, who could at present be blind, only to later see through his own teaching and testimony. That's the testimony I want to hear. That's the man who's able to tell me where he is and from whence he came.

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"When you know better you should do better." Maya Angelou.
"And if you choose not to do better, you get what you get...and I don't want to hear about it." Prince Emerald Falcon

If the church wants to take a stand on homosexuality, it NEEDS to put everything else on that same pedestal.  It's sickening how they pick and choose what is and isn't "socially acceptable". 

Oh no, don't worry about sleeping with x amount of people, so long as you're not gay, you're good. 

Oh no, don't worry about lying, cheating, etc, etc, so long as you're not gay, you're good. 

The fu**?! 

You people and your church logic kill me......

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You can refer to me as TheAgnosticAtheist.

If dishonest people have no business preaching the word of God, the bible would have never been written, because it is the ultimate lie.

wow.  that's a pretty hateful/spiteful statement.  no matter ur opinion on how true the bible is, u can't argue that it's overall message to love one another as u love yourself and live a peaceful, moral and charitable life isn't a good one.  the bible itself isn't a lie.  certain people over the centuries have definitely perpetrated lies in its name, but the book itself is the history of the religion it preaches, and the origins of mankind.  i don't believe the timespan of mankind to be what some theologians think it is. 

I guess calling the bible a lie is a bit strong. It does have a handful historical events woven into it. But the rest of it is a fantastic fairy tale, concocted to control the ignorant masses, with no proof to back up it's reasoning. Kinda like what politicians are doing to people today.

As for teaching to live peacefully and love everyone, that's commendable, but it ultimately fails when you start bringing morality into it. I challenge every christian to actually read their bible and count all the instances when god and his people have killed people in the name of  "morality".

There has never been a great "love" movement in the history of the world that hasn't wound up killing countless numbers of people, we must assume, to prove how much they loved them. Every hypocrite who ever walked the earth has had pockets buldging with "love".

The bible may explain the origins of the religion (because ultimately spirts, gods, and religions are all creations of man's imagination), but as for explaining the origins of mankind, it fails from a scientific standpoint.

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http://www.faithfreedom.org
http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com
http://www.humantruth.info

 EmeraldFalcon wrote:

@black_optimus:  So if we are all born into sin, and will continue to sin until the end, who then is qualified to teach the word of God, as there is none perfect but God.  Who decided what degree of sin is eligible to teach the word.  Sin is sin, and we all do it and will continue to do it, so who's the best teacher, .is it the divorcee, the alcoholic, the lesbian, the cigarette smoker, the gossiper...who?  We are all tainted, so who decides how much taint is "acceptable" or how tainted one cannot be in order for God not to use them.  Your, "a person with that much dishonesty has no business preaching the word of God" subjects God to "your limitations" of his "moves in mysterious ways" and overall ability to be THE ALMIGHTY.  What if that DL has a message meant for you and God's has purposed him on your Life's path, to teach you how to look beyond the man and hear the word...to teach you acceptance great and small because you too at one time was blind but someone helped you to see, to  teach you how a judgement of one thing about an entire person discredits your ability to see the entire person God created. 

I would think that an infinate Almighty "God" would be able to use who, what, when and where to spread the word or to get across his message of hope and forgiveness.  That the minds of humanity is so fragile as to allow one facet of a human's total diamond to void him capable of being used by God, therein suggests a bigger problem nee sin...that we are telling God who he can and cannot use.  Doing so, one would be blashphemous, thinking himself or herself God...a sin no greater than the Down Low minister, who could at present be blind, only to later see through his own teaching and testimony. That's the testimony I want to hear. That's the man who's able to tell me where he is and from whence he came.

Your kidding right??  You have to be joking...so the DL man...the man that is having sexual relations with another MAN can  preach the word of GOD??  This person is a HYPOCRIT!!   I do not want to hear the word of GOD from a HYPOCRIT!!

You can't serve 2 masters!!!

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where the KOOL people hang out....

http://ebonycity.heavenforum.com/index.htm

 swtearl wrote: EmeraldFalcon wrote:

@black_optimus:  So if we are all born into sin, and will continue to sin until the end, who then is qualified to teach the word of God, as there is none perfect but God.  Who decided what degree of sin is eligible to teach the word.  Sin is sin, and we all do it and will continue to do it, so who's the best teacher, .is it the divorcee, the alcoholic, the lesbian, the cigarette smoker, the gossiper...who?  We are all tainted, so who decides how much taint is "acceptable" or how tainted one cannot be in order for God not to use them.  Your, "a person with that much dishonesty has no business preaching the word of God" subjects God to "your limitations" of his "moves in mysterious ways" and overall ability to be THE ALMIGHTY.  What if that DL has a message meant for you and God's has purposed him on your Life's path, to teach you how to look beyond the man and hear the word...to teach you acceptance great and small because you too at one time was blind but someone helped you to see, to  teach you how a judgement of one thing about an entire person discredits your ability to see the entire person God created. 

I would think that an infinate Almighty "God" would be able to use who, what, when and where to spread the word or to get across his message of hope and forgiveness.  That the minds of humanity is so fragile as to allow one facet of a human's total diamond to void him capable of being used by God, therein suggests a bigger problem nee sin...that we are telling God who he can and cannot use.  Doing so, one would be blashphemous, thinking himself or herself God...a sin no greater than the Down Low minister, who could at present be blind, only to later see through his own teaching and testimony. That's the testimony I want to hear. That's the man who's able to tell me where he is and from whence he came.

Your kidding right??  You have to be joking...so the DL man...the man that is having sexual relations with another MAN can  preach the word of GOD??  This person is a HYPOCRIT!!   I do not want to hear the word of GOD from a HYPOCRIT!!

You can't serve 2 masters!!!

 

If that's the case Earl, then the word shouldn't be taught at all.  EVERYONE lies, EVERYONE falls in some sharpe or form, so........

 

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You can refer to me as TheAgnosticAtheist.

i think falcon is missing my point.  i don't have a problem with someone who is gay speaking the word of God, because ur right, sin is sin and we are all sinners.  but the openly gay person isn't hiding what they are, they are being HONEST about it.  as long as they are doing their best to not live a sinful life (which is what we are all, but especially for anyone who wants to be a minister/preacher/priest/rabbi/imam/whatever) then i would definitely give them a chance.  but i would not listen to someone who claims to be on the down-low when it comes to anything regarding morality or right/wrong. 

being on the down-low is different from being gay.  gay people have accepted they are gay (whether they like it or not) and will admit to it.  someone on the down-low can't even admit it to themselves. they are DISHONEST even with themselves.  they are lying about their desires, their activities and they often DON'T CARE about who they hurt as long as they get what they want.  being on the down-low is one of the most selfish and disgusting things a person can do, and i make no apologies for not wanting to listen to or approve of someone who lies to themselves and others on a daily basis. 

the difference between being on the down-low and "other sinners" is that other sinners fully know the consequences of their actions, and they can admit to their sins, and either make the steps to change or decide to keep committing them.  someone on the down-low can't even admit that they're doing anything wrong by sleeping with the same sex and then going back to their heterosexual lives like everything's okay.  this is a big part of the reason so many black women are contracting AIDS right now, because these down-low men are getting it from other men and spreading it to their unsuspecting girlfriends and wives.  i'm not saying these people are beyond redemption, but the first step towards redemption and forgiveness from anyone, God included, is admitting to one's sins.  people on the down-low can't even admit it to themselves.

falcon, if u want to defend liars that's on u.  but i can't defend, forgive or justify the actions of anyone who can't even admit to who or what they are. 

@Black  - I agree with some of what you're saying, but as far as someone who hasn't admitted to "society" per se' that they're gay, I don't agree with that. 

You're somewhat generalizing in that paragraph.  Just because a person hasn't come out of the closet doesn't necessarily mean they haven't already admitted that they're gay.  If a man is engaging in homosexual acts with other men and he has someone, he's wrong in the sense that he hasn't given her the choice to stay or leave......that's definitely wrong. 

But if a man engages in sexual acts, while single, with other men, and hasn't "come out" so to speak, he's not wrong.  Realistically, it's nobody's business......people just WANT to know. 

Just my opinion.......

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You can refer to me as TheAgnosticAtheist.

i was generalizing a little...

"Just because a person hasn't come out of the closet doesn't necessarily mean they haven't already admitted that they're gay...But if a man engages in sexual acts, while single, with other men, and hasn't "come out" so to speak, he's not wrong."

this is true, but not what i'm talking about.  this person, who hasn't told the world, but is ONLY living a homosexual lifestyle isn't lying to his wife and kids and anyone else about being gay.  these aren't the people i have problems with.  these people are either openly gay (proud to display it) or live a homosexual lifetsyle without flaunting it.  that's okay.  they're the ones who have to deal with the consequences of their actions, not their families.

the definition of down-low is (and i'm paraphrasing) someone who commits homosexual acts and/or lives a homosexual lifestyle in secret while also living a double-life as a heterosexual.  this is what i have a problem with.

these "men" are in self-denial about their homosexuality.  they can't admit that they are gay or at least bisexual.  and they lie to people about it, even if it's just by not telling anyone.  so it becomes someone else's business when they're exposing innocent people to diseases and emotional pain they can't protect themselves from.

that's all i'm saying.

 black_optimus wrote:

i was generalizing a little...

"Just because a person hasn't come out of the closet doesn't necessarily mean they haven't already admitted that they're gay...But if a man engages in sexual acts, while single, with other men, and hasn't "come out" so to speak, he's not wrong."

this is true, but not what i'm talking about.  this person, who hasn't told the world, but is ONLY living a homosexual lifestyle isn't lying to his wife and kids and anyone else about being gay.  these aren't the people i have problems with.  these people are either openly gay (proud to display it) or live a homosexual lifetsyle without flaunting it.  that's okay.  they're the ones who have to deal with the consequences of their actions, not their families.

the definition of down-low is (and i'm paraphrasing) someone who commits homosexual acts and/or lives a homosexual lifestyle in secret while also living a double-life as a heterosexual.  this is what i have a problem with.

these "men" are in self-denial about their homosexuality.  they can't admit that they are gay or at least bisexual.  and they lie to people about it, even if it's just by not telling anyone.  so it becomes someone else's business when they're exposing innocent people to diseases and emotional pain they can't protect themselves from.

that's all i'm saying.

Nothing against you, but I really hate that down low word.  Really, there is no such thing, but there is a such thing as a f'ing cheater.  That's all the person really is.  Man or woman, the cheater runs the risk of exposing their partner to potentially life altering diseases and/or heartache because they feel the need to venture outside of their relationship.  That's just how I see it.....

I dig what you're saying though.....no doubt. 

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You can refer to me as TheAgnosticAtheist.

they're called "down-low' for a reason, but i guess a better term would be "undercover homosexual".  but ur right, a cheater is a cheater, but why complicate things emotionally even more by cheating homosexually?  this goes for ALL cheaters, down-low/straight/gay/bisexual/transexual/lesbian/animal-lovers/plant-lovers (did i leave anybody out?).  just be honest with yourself.  if u want to be with other people, BE SINGLE and do what u want (safely, of course).  save yourself, your family and whoever else you're involved with from all the drama. 

 black_optimus wrote:

If dishonest people have no business preaching the word of God, the bible would have never been written, because it is the ultimate lie.

wow.  that's a pretty hateful/spiteful statement.  no matter ur opinion on how true the bible is, u can't argue that it's overall message to love one another as u love yourself and live a peaceful, moral and charitable life isn't a good one.  the bible itself isn't a lie.  certain people over the centuries have definitely perpetrated lies in its name, but the book itself is the history of the religion it preaches, and the origins of mankind.  i don't believe the timespan of mankind to be what some theologians ( who are supposed to be biblical scholars)  think it is. 

This just doesnt make any sense to me..........according to the bible mankind is about what 6000 years old...do you believe this, when scientists have found (  concrete evidence ) human bones that dated back to millions of years....The bible is  also very contradictory...One minute God is a loving and forgiving God and then all of a sudden he is a vengeful, jealous God. You say the bible speaks against homosexuality but if you read closely.....the men of the bible engaged in homosexual acts left and right and incest... I dont agree with this man often, but I have to agree with the fact that the bible is ficticious...............You know what else cracks me up....how these people come on TV and say God has cured them from homosexuality, then in the same breath, they admit to " still having feelings" for the same sex.........your a.z.z.. is not cured then right...lol.......if God can cure you of homosexuality, then why cant he cure you of like depression or schitzophrenia or like cancer or hiv???

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=NgNxlrzWm10


http://youtube.com/watch?v=-umA_qGgMeI


http://youtube.com/watch?v=PuiiXvJuI90

 black_optimus wrote:they're called "down-low' for a reason, but i guess a better term would be "undercover homosexual".  but ur right, a cheater is a cheater, but why complicate things emotionally even more by cheating homosexually?  this goes for ALL cheaters, down-low/straight/gay/bisexual/transexual/lesbian/animal-lovers/plant-lovers (did i leave anybody out?).  just be honest with yourself.  if u want to be with other people, BE SINGLE and do what u want (safely, of course).  save yourself, your family and whoever else you're involved with from all the drama. 

I fail to see what the difference would be, be it man or woman.  People make it seem like a man cheating with a woman is BETTER than a man cheating with a man.  *shaking head* 

The fu** kind of logic is that? 

People kill me......

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You can refer to me as TheAgnosticAtheist.

 sugeavery wrote:This just doesnt make any sense to me..........according to the bible mankind is about what 6000 years old...do you believe this, when scientists have found (  concrete evidence ) human bones that dated back to millions of years....The bible is  also very contradictory...One minute God is a loving and forgiving God and then all of a sudden he is a vengeful, jealous God. You say the bible speaks against homosexuality but if you read closely.....the men of the bible engaged in homosexual acts left and right and incest... I dont agree with this man often, but I have to agree with the fact that the bible is ficticious...............You know what else cracks me up....how these people come on TV and say God has cured them from homosexuality, then in the same breath, they admit to " still having feelings" for the same sex.........your a.z.z.. is not cured then right...lol.......if God can cure you of homosexuality, then why cant he cure you of like depression or schitzophrenia or like cancer or hiv???

A more important question is why does god make gay people to begin with? Is god a retard who can't remember his own bible?  Homosexuals are an abomination to him, but he makes hundreds of them a day. God sounds pretty damn dumb to me. No wonder he's close friends with George W. Bush.

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http://www.faithfreedom.org
http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com
http://www.humantruth.info