@Agnostic, you said: *Agnosticism isn't wrong, we honestly don't know what is or isn't.* I had absolutely no intention of responding to these boards anymore, only to look in every now and then. But I wanted to say that your statement has truth in it in that we don't know what is or isn't. But you helped me today because you brought a question to my mind, it was about Israel fighting with God all night and becoming lame. But instead of finding that passage it led me to this one. Ephesians 3. Thanks man. And I mean that sincerely because at least read this part verse 8: "To me, *who am less than the least of all the saints*, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all people see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ." I'm not one to try to quote scripture to folks because I can't, I just wanted to show you something that gives me peace because that's what I look for the most in life is love and peace. Hard to find sometimes. Like you, I "think" there are contradictions, but knowing myself, I doubt that they are. I just don't get it yet. You may not want to hear this, but God used you today. *smile*

I can understand your frustration with wanting results from someone as you're saying is widely accepted as being a deliverer. And indeed he is, only it's on his schedule that specific matters of major interest are addressed. Everything has its place with maturing and not a moment before will it happen. ________________________________________ ________________________________________ Keep in mind that GOD has subjected all creation on this planet to misery. No matter what! we all bleed if injured. _________________________________________ _________________________________________ Here's an analogy you may want to consider while questioning GOD'S purpose for doing what he's saw fit too do. If a person is given a seed to plant in the earth and he does so, but he gives it very little hope for the future because of planting it into poor soil to start, chances are the seed won't sprout and if it does sprout, the life span is short. Would you say that the person responsible for that seeds unfruitful growth is the one who gave that seed to be planted or The one whom planted the seed?

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The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.

@Merciful

Your rebuttal is quite humorous to say the least.  You're making excuses for the obvious.  And that's fine, by all means, I expect that from die hard Christians. 

Again, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to create something only to make it suffer.  That defeats the purpose of being the "creator".  If anything, your purpose is to make sure PEACE happens, not war and pain.  But hey, maybe that's just me. 

If I'm given a seed to plant, it's my responsibility to make sure that seed is taken care of.  Rich soil is conducive to rich health.  Let us not forget that my friend. 

If I knowingly plant my seed in bad soil, as the creator, it's my fault that I give that seed such a short life span.  I'm essentially damning my own creation.  Which, by all means, defeats the purpose of looking for a "fruitful future".  Correct? 

You know, I think that I'm going to get myself a couple of slaves, beat them and have them call me "massa".  Your "good book" condones slavery you know?  Check the scripture ----->  (Leviticus 25:44-46).  Oh, and did you know I can't be punished if I beat my slaves and they don't die?  Again, check your "good book".  ------>  (Exodus 21:20-21)

Sooooo, I think it's safe to say that your god doesn't/didn't see anything wrong with slavery against blacks, Jews, Native Americans and others that were forced by the iron rod right?  Of course he didn't, his own book promotes it! 

Oh, and did you know that your god, the ALL LOVING god, says that no child, be it of an incestuous or adultered relationship, shall enter heaven?  So says your "good book" in ------->  (Deuteronomy 23:2-3).  

How is that fair?  I'm supposed to believe that a child is to be held accountable, and mind you, they didn't ASK to be here, can't get into heaven, baptized and loving your god, all on the account of someone else's mistake? 

LOL!  Wow.......*shaking head* 

Your god is awesome.......he really is. 

Can you refute those statements?  At all? 

 

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You can refer to me as TheAgnosticAtheist.

 1ana2ana3ana4 wrote:@Agnostic, you said: *Agnosticism isn't wrong, we honestly don't know what is or isn't.* I had absolutely no intention of responding to these boards anymore, only to look in every now and then. But I wanted to say that your statement has truth in it in that we don't know what is or isn't. But you helped me today because you brought a question to my mind, it was about Israel fighting with God all night and becoming lame. But instead of finding that passage it led me to this one. Ephesians 3. Thanks man. And I mean that sincerely because at least read this part verse 8: "To me, *who am less than the least of all the saints*, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all people see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ." I'm not one to try to quote scripture to folks because I can't, I just wanted to show you something that gives me peace because that's what I look for the most in life is love and peace. Hard to find sometimes. Like you, I "think" there are contradictions, but knowing myself, I doubt that they are. I just don't get it yet. You may not want to hear this, but God used you today. *smile*

 

^^^^

I doubt your god has used me.  I don't allow myself to be used by man or "being". 

I did read that scripture though.  What I got from it, I got that the mysteries of god are just that, mysteries.  AND, we should just follow and not question what is. 

Even if you read verse (13), he's basically saying don't question the tribulations, just go with the flow. 

Well, if we don't question and wonder, why on earth would your god give us brains?  Doesn't make sense.  We as human are naturally inquisitive, so he should know that there will be questions. 

Why does your god speak in tongues?  *shaking head* 

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You can refer to me as TheAgnosticAtheist.

You said:------I doubt your god has used me. I don't allow myself to be used by man or "being".--------- My friend, I don't know about you, but I definitely do not freely give 36% of my earnings to man, but he takes them anyway. I really feel used. God only ask for a tenth of that which was never mine to begin with, leaving me 90%, minus the other 36% that I already mentioned. God doesn't take His portion from me, He ask that I give it freely. I don't know why God speaks in tongues. I will have to seek that. *smiling* Your other statement: --------I did read that scripture though. What I got from it, I got that the mysteries of god are just that, mysteries. AND, we should just follow and not question what is.-----------we do question it. Did He not say (paraphrasing) "you have not because you ask not" ? I think that the questions are there but that it takes a clean heart and a willing spirit to find them. I've been praying for that. I really think that I"m going to get it too!....I may have to cancel vegas though.!!! *still smiling*

It all started on the slave ships. After the bloody wars that took place in Europe between the Roman and Aryan Christian sects. Its called the King James book and the descendants of slaves live by it.

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بِسْمِ اللّهِ الرَّحْمـَنِ الرَّحِيمِ

الْحَمْدُ للّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ

There is no god except Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger

 1ana2ana3ana4 wrote:You said:------I doubt your god has used me. I don't allow myself to be used by man or "being".--------- My friend, I don't know about you, but I definitely do not freely give 36% of my earnings to man, but he takes them anyway. I really feel used. God only ask for a tenth of that which was never mine to begin with, leaving me 90%, minus the other 36% that I already mentioned. God doesn't take His portion from me, He ask that I give it freely. I don't know why God speaks in tongues. I will have to seek that. *smiling* Your other statement: --------I did read that scripture though. What I got from it, I got that the mysteries of god are just that, mysteries. AND, we should just follow and not question what is.-----------we do question it. Did He not say (paraphrasing) "you have not because you ask not" ? I think that the questions are there but that it takes a clean heart and a willing spirit to find them. I've been praying for that. I really think that I"m going to get it too!....I may have to cancel vegas though.!!! *still smiling*

^^^

What the hell do you mean a tenth that was never yours to begin with?  Didn't you work for that money?  Wasn't it you that got up every morning at the crack of dawn to slave in an office for 8 hours?  Yes, it was.  So why the hell does your god feel the need to ask for what he hasn't put in on?  Absurd......(my opinion). 

I don't give up sh**.....it's mine and I don't feel like lining the pockets of these greedy preachers.  Not my thing. 

 

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You can refer to me as TheAgnosticAtheist.

@Agnostic: Your right. Jesus (AS) never begged for a dime. He taught charity. He NEVER told anyone to fill buckets in his name. But those who believe that God is in need of anything, cannot claim to serve an independant god. Independace is free of need. So their concept of God is twisted from the begining. I often marvel at the contradictions between the teachings of Christ (AS) and the false preachings of ministers. If I were not a Believer, I would probably start an institution and pass the collection plate myself. Its legal business you know.

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بِسْمِ اللّهِ الرَّحْمـَنِ الرَّحِيمِ

الْحَمْدُ للّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ

There is no god except Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger

LOL....Evidently it's not mine because Uncle Sam sure gets what he wants first no matter what I say or how I've slaved. The other, I'm not even going to go into because you wouldn't believe me anyway. As far as greedy preachers go, well, not at my church. He does not govern the money. We vote the salary. The rest of the money goes to the upkeep of the building, scholarships, the poor, sick, helpless, homeless, things like that. He can't even write a check. He is not flamboyant with his possessions either. Matter of fact, he's rather humble.

I sought guidance elsewhere.

 

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http://www.faithfreedom.org
http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com
http://www.humantruth.info

I had enough of this bs listen up.The bible was written for the white man as a guide to put them in check. There is no mention of you and me.It is  a very well written piece of crap where the good guy dies at the end. The slave masters didn't want us to read it why?Now blacks all over this stupid country thinks it the truth.It is just a story and was not meant for us to read people.Name one time that this god has saved you from anythingThey dragged a brother to death where was this butthead god.He deserves a good butt whopping.Wake up everytime I see my people get beat down and then pray to this joke of a god it makes my mad.Now get on the good foot and believe in your self.

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Culturally cool Click Here

@ Agnos__________________Ultimately you're questioning God's logic behind his grace, which is stored up for the objects of his mercy, that's in fact voided when it pertains to the objects of eternal damnation. And in a lesser tone you're spraying this foul smell of disgust towards God in the presence of those who have long awaited his justice, I wonder why? You know, as I seek answers from him, I'm enligtened to see that it comes from your envy of us being made the children of righteousness/faith that you carry on. _________________________________________ _________________________________________ It is through our sufferings as a collected group, that we are made to hunger for GOD'S eternal pleasures. A promise your people have rejected from day one of setting foot in this country. And to add insult to injury, that same abuse your people experienced in Europe from 'your brothers', you've delivered on our door steps all over this world. _________________________________________ _________________________________________ This anti-God & Christ movement picked up the biggest of it's momentum in America where your people setup head quaters for the new world. Although its been a long haul, we now find ourselves being invited to join hands with these educated rebels of Christ whom hate GOD and his promises for that of the life to come. This is the same life that you and your people have forfeited through much rebellion. _________________________________________ _________________________________________ Psalms 1:1-6 " 1 Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night. 3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither. Whatever he does prospers. 4 Not so the wicked! They are like chaff that the wind blows away. 5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous. 6 For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish."

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The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.

There is a time for every matter under under the sun. And those who hate GOD'S time table are found to be the greatest opponents of his word. You'll find them rebelling with the most creative evil known to man. Spiritual spite and vindictiveness is the load they carry. Know this!!!!

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The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.

@ Agnos whom stated:_________________If a question is asked, answer it. Bottom line, answer it. Don't "Acts" this and "Job" that....just answer the question. I hate when people do that. Either they have no answer for said question, and to save face, they spout off any and everything, or they simply don't know/understand. If it's the latter, simply say that. _________________________________________ _________________________________________ I'll answer you on a specific point when necessary. And at times you'll just have to read between the lines, and make an applicable summation to what you're simply fighting to NOT decode. [the truth] Don't go to far though, you might miss the point. ________________________________________ ________________________________________ Psalms 53:1___________ The fool says in his heart "their is no GOD". ________________________________________ ________________________________________ Proverbs 26:4,5_____________ 4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes. _________________________________________ _________________________________________ Agnos you've also stated: Listen man, I'm not challening your god to anything. I simply don't believe what I can't see and what won't show itself to the masses is all. You can rely on "faith" and "the good book" if you want, but some of us need that PROOF to believe. Now, if your god was "all knowing" as he claims to be, then he would've known I'd be a non-believer. That's his fault for making a flawed product. ________________________________________ ________________________________________ ???????You've figured it out, you see GOD also releases the waste in Christ body, correcting this kind of constipation will truly help fertilize the land, and afterwards we'll feel better. ________________________________________ ________________________________________ Psalms 37:7-12 "7 Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him; do not fret when men succeed in their ways, when they carry out their wicked schemes. 8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret—it leads only to evil. 9 For evil men will be cut off, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land. _________________________________________ _________________________________________ 10 A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. 11 But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy great peace. 12 The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them; 13 but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming."

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The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.

Good debate I was uh just reading her. @Merci I do not understand this though, please explain.  See below:

 

You've figured it out, you see GOD also releases the waste in Christ body, correcting this kind of constipation will truly help fertilize the land, and afterwards we'll feel better.